[From nobody Mon Jan 14 08:17:57 2013 Received: from mailsorter-101-4.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.29) by storefull-167.iap.bryant.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Thu, 4 May 2000 02:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: <shadow+bounces@dementia.org> Received: from alycia.dementia.org (ALYCIA.DEMENTIA.ORG [128.2.35.149]) by mailsorter-101-4.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8-wtv-f/ms.dwm.v7+dul2) with ESMTP id CAA21547; Thu, 4 May 2000 02:50:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by alycia.dementia.org (8.9.1a/8.9.0) id FAA14272 for pittsburgh-railways-outgoing; Thu, 4 May 2000 05:46:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by alycia.dementia.org (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id FAA14268 for <pittsburgh-railways@dementia.org>; Thu, 4 May 2000 05:46:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([206.170.1.38]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0FU1002A64FWYN@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for pittsburgh-railways@dementia.org; Thu, 4 May 2000 02:45:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 02:43:25 -0700 From: Jim Holland <pghpcc@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: Brill Interurbans 3700--3714 To: pittsburgh-railways@dementia.org Message-id: <3911463D.545C@pacbell.net> Organization: Holland Electric Railway Operation MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03C-PBXG (Win16; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <16846-3910D03B-1195@storefull-163.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Sender: owner-pittsburgh-railways@dementia.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways@dementia.org Greetings! Bob - you seem to have some excellent sources of information and material! Could you share other interesting information you find in that report? That predates the St. Louis 3800--3814 series but do you have anything that might have details on these cars? Did the 3700--3714 series have the original seating changed to bucket seats? Wonder what that 0.4375" of paint added to the weight? Bob Schmidt wrote: > The 8'-3 7/16" width "included" the paint, and quite a few mils of it I > might add! Are we permittted some humor here? > A dimension of 8'-3" is given for the width at the Belt Rail & Eaves, > and a height of 11' 5" given based on "rail over the trolley board", > according to an inter-office 38-page manual entitled: > "Rolling Stock/Passenger Cars", Mechanical & Electrical Engineer, > Pittsburgh Railways Co., October 27, l924. > All the other dimensional data agrees. Just thought I'd have some fun > with Brill's .4375" of additional paint. > Bob S. > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Subject: Re: Brill Interurbans 3700--3714 > Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 19:45:15 -0400 > From: "Fred W. Schneider III" <fschnei@supernet.com> > Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways@dementia.org > To: pittsburgh-railways@dementia.org > References: <39108547.7108@pacbell.net> > Note Jim that the electrical equipment excludes motors. They were in with the > truck weight. I have no weight data for the GE 247 motor, which was used on the > Pittsburgh 3700-3714 group. I guess I'm a tad surprised that four motors and > gears weigh 9,140 lbs. while four of the comparable Westinghouse 514 machines > with gears and gear cases weighed about one ton less! > > The Pittsburgh Railways car cards for the 3700s show the same 52'-8" length, but > the height over the roof was given as 11'-5". Over trolley boards would have to > be even more. If you want the width of the body .... 8'-3 7/16" .... they > concocted that very precise number; I didn't. I'm not sure if it is with or > without paint. Truck centers or body bolsters ... 27'6" > > You might be interest to know that three surviving car cards (3700, 3707, 3712) > all show PR control, meaning Pittsburgh Railways, or more specifically the > Westinghouse contractor group form of P. N. Jones control. There is no > reference on the cards to the replacement of that control with anything else. > There was a note, however, that safety car control was added in July 1930 when > cars were converted to one man operation. The Peter Smith hot water heaters > appear to have been replaced with electric resistance heaters at the same time. > The M-18 brake valves on those three cars were all replaced with M-20AS valves, > but I don't know when. > There was no mention of a toilet, but since the 3750s had them, there might also > have been one in the 3700s ... it requires greater exploration. Anyone want to > go to the Historical Society of Pennsylvania and have interior prints made? > Jim Holland wrote: > > Greetings! > > A friend just sent me this information claiming it comes from Brill > > literature. This information is very hard to come by and I hope it is > > accurate. > > These 15-Brill interurbans (3700--3714) were 52-feet 8-inches long, > > 11-feet 3-3/8-inches high over the trolley boards, and weighed a total > > of 49,270-pounds. This weight includes: > > 1)--Car Body only -- 25,000-pounds > > 2)--Electrical equipment -- 3,500-pounds > > 3)--Air Brake equipment -- 2,300-pounds > > 4)--Trucks -- 9,330-pounds > > 5)--Motors -- 9,140-pounds > > Apparently the floor ramped down between the trucks to allow for one > > less step into the car - center entrance - which allows for smooth > > traffic flow. These cars were apparently identified as "center entrance > > and *smoking* (I wonder if that refers to their speed!::>>]]) interurban > > cars." He said that the back of the car was the main passenger > > compartment and that the *ladies* do not have to pass thru the smoking > > compartment so I assume that was near the front end - keeping the > > motor-person hazy! > > The back seats faced the rear to form an observation platform! The > > motorman had his own compartment, and there was a biffy on board! James B. Holland Pittsburgh Railways Company (PRCo), 1940 -- 1950 To e-mail privately, please click here: mailto:pghpcc@pacbell.net N.M.R.A. Life member #2190; http://www.mcs.net:80/~weyand/nmra/ ]