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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Absolutely right Fred, but in peace time, it
becomes more like an adult Scout group with great benifits, the side benifit is,
it's already instilled the basics if there was an Emergency but, the most
important thing is, it teaches them to think of other people, not just
themselves, as for you being the Devil's advocate, you must be the Seth Bremson
of this list! I also agree about the German youth, it's so easy to right off
what happened as them being lead around by that lunatic but, if people knew what
it was like when he cae to power, oh let's not go down that path again, I've got
to go and drive a 1 to 1 scale streetcar and play with the autos and watch the
self loading baggage.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cheers</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Greg</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A href="mailto:fschnei@supernet.com" title=fschnei@supernet.com>Fred W.
Schneider III</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:pittsburgh-railways@dementia.org"
title=pittsburgh-railways@dementia.org>pittsburgh-railways@dementia.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 27, 2000 11:54
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: West Penn "Orange"</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><B>WELCOME GREG</B>. You'll probably discover that I like
to play devil's advocate, often with a smile on my lips as I'm pounding the
keys ... to stimulate thought ... to bring some of us out of our cozy little
corner into the big world ... to find the similarities and differences around
the world ... even to appreciate how others do things (there is no reason why
someone in Australia or Austria can't have a better way to do something).
<P>And as to general conscription into the military ... it did teach men how
to appreciate each other and to accept differences. It was a great
equalizer ... sort of like the baggage carousel at the airport. I never
loved the army but I'll be first to say that it was a lot better back when
everyone had a more or less equal chance of being drafted. You learned
how to deal with all sorts of people, or have your bed short sheeted. We
may have had different abilities but we all had feelings and we learned to
cope. That was the good side. The bad side is apparent
everytime you walk through a military cemetery. Many times I felt more
sorrow for the Germans than for the Americans in World War II because they
were forced to serve with blinders and because so many teenagers -- kids as
young as 12 or 13 -- never had a chance to live beyond 1945.
<P>Greg King wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE="CITE">G'day Guys,
<P>My name is Greg King and I've just signed on at the suggestion of Jim
<BR>Holland, I'm a Streetcar motorman in Melbourne and a model producer in O
and <BR>HO. I'm interested in all things traction but have a real big soft
spot <BR>(between the ears) for all things Penna, especially Pgh, Johnstown
and <BR>Philly, I been to Philly, driven 2168 on a charter and generally had
a ball, <BR>have spent so much time in San Fran, know it as well as I know
Sydney (where <BR>I started driving buses in 1971). I have a million
questions, I have most of <BR>what has been published on Pgh (whish someone
like CERA would do a <BR>definative book) but I believe there is a video on
the subject, could <BR>someone enlighten me please???
<P>As to Mr Schneider's comments re driving in Europe, having done many
miles <BR>there myself (and driven streetcars in Gothenburg Sweden) I
completely <BR>concur, I have also driven widely in the US and found that
mostly you guys <BR>are pretty good, Boston was another story though. Over
here, Fred, you could <BR>have been decribing what I put up with every, both
driving my car and my <BR>streetcar, the desease over there is well and
alive here, it's all along <BR>with road rage, everyone believes his/her car
has righ of way over everyone <BR>else and if you dare get in the
way......... Unfortunately, it is deep <BR>seated in society, the reference
to Germans (by the way, I have German <BR>ancestry) and their ability for
self discaplin is absolutely correct, at <BR>least until recently,
conscription/draft was still prcaticed in most <BR>European countries, this
teaches self discipline and self respect and <BR>respect for other people
property. I'm sorry i have gone on to long on the <BR>subject, it just hit a
nerve.
<P>If anyone is interested in things down this way, please feel free to ask,
I <BR>hope to learn a lot from you guys, by the way, SF Muni has no PCC's
painted <BR>in TTC colours, you have to go to the new operation in
wisconsin.
<P>Cheers for now <BR>Greg <BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: Fred
W. Schneider III <fschnei@supernet.com> <BR>To:
<pittsburgh-railways@dementia.org> <BR>Sent: Wednesday, September 27,
2000 8:32 PM <BR>Subject: Re: West Penn "Orange"
<P>> Hi Jim <BR>> <BR>> No, I'm not encouraging. Sad thing is
that Americans always hear the <BR>wrong stories. <BR>> They claim
they've heard about the high speeds on the German Autobahnen. <BR>They never
<BR>> seem to understand that the Germans and Swiss are some of the best
<BR>trained, most <BR>> disciplined, self-regulated drivers around.
The Germans have a long <BR>history of being <BR>> regulated and obeying
regulation. A speed limit sign, a no left turn sign <BR>... they
<BR>> understand there is a reason for them and they obey.
Americans seem to <BR>operate <BR>> differently, on a philosophy that
nothing wrong was done until they are <BR>caught. Quite <BR>> frankly, I
never have bad experiences driving over there ... By now I <BR>probably have
<BR>> 30,000 to 40,000 miles under my belt on European roads (including
<BR>left-side driving in <BR>> England and Ireland). And I enjoy
driving over there because the drivers <BR>are <BR>> predictable. I
know what is going to happen. I don't find my self amazed <BR>at what
<BR>> some idiot did 5 feet in front of my bumper. They all
understand that <BR>traffic moves <BR>> better if you queue up instead of
cutting in front of someone. And by the <BR>way, <BR>> express
highways can only handle so much traffic and the German Autobahnen <BR>are
now at <BR>> that stage. The average speed has dropped about 15
miles per hour in the <BR>last ten <BR>> years, there are a whole lot of
additional speed zones which are obeyed, <BR>and today the <BR>> German
government has dropped their recommended safe speed from 90 mph to <BR>75
mph and <BR>> probably only 5% of the drivers are now exceeding that
recommendation. <BR>By the way, <BR>> Germany (and most if not all
European) requires that drivers go to driving <BR>schools to <BR>> be
trained. Parents and friends don't do the training. Everyone is
<BR>trained the same <BR>> way. The cost of getting the initial
license varies with the student and <BR>the country <BR>> ... the range
is between $1200 and $2000. Personally I think you take it <BR>a lot
more <BR>> seriously when shelling out that kind of money. <BR>>
<BR>> Then I get home to watching assholes speed by me in the passing
lane and <BR>then dive <BR>> across three lanes onto an exit ramp because
they have an inalienable <BR>right to be <BR>> ahead of the other
cars. And damnit, you see it every day on your bus, <BR>don't you?
<BR>> <BR>> With age goes cynicism. <BR>> <BR>> Jim Holland
wrote: <BR>> <BR>> > Greetings! <BR>> > <BR>> > Fred W.
Schneider III wrote: <BR>> > <BR>> > > But it remains an
<BR>> > > American right to drive at high speeds even after we've
proven that <BR>fatalities <BR>> > > increase. Wars are a
travesty. Auto accidents are acceptable because <BR>we choose <BR>>
> > to kill randomly. <BR>> > <BR>>
> Aren't we encouraging
on our first day back!!::>>)))<Ultra-VBG> <BR>> > <BR>>
> Didn't see a postcard
here - and in this day of instant <BR>messaging, <BR>> > wireless
communications, etc!!::>>))<Another-Ultra-VBG> <BR>> >
<BR>> > James B. Holland <BR>> > <BR>>
> Pittsburgh
Railways Company (PRCo), 1930 -- 1950
<BR>> > To e-mail privately, please click
here: <A href="mailto:pghpcc@pacbell.net">mailto:pghpcc@pacbell.net</A>
<BR>> > N.M.R.A. Life member #2190; <A
href="http://www.mcs.net:80/~weyand/nmra/">http://www.mcs.net:80/~weyand/nmra/</A>
<BR>> <BR>></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>