<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'><P>I remember the hardware store on Perrysville Ave. a few doors south of Charles St. I went there regularly in the late 1950's and early 60's when I was making repairs and improvements on my grandparents' home on Spring Hilll. I remember the open counters full of hardware and tools in that store and how they always had everything - including advice - that I needed.</P>
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<P>My grandparents allowed me to make minor reprairs in their home, and it was a great learning experience. Today when my kids ask me where I learned how to install drywall and re-route plumbing lines, I tell them that I learned from my grandfather who gave me some guidance and then let me loose to figure out how to complete the job.<BR><BR>Bob</P>
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<P><B>From: </B>"Dwight Long" <dwightlong@verizon.net><BR><B>To: </B>"Western PA Trolley discussion" <pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org><BR><B>Sent: </B>Thursday, May 30, 2013 7:57:35 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: [PRCo] FYI-Pittsburgh Neighborhood Map<BR><BR><BR>Fred<BR><BR>Apparently your grandparents by then were veterans of the married life.<BR><BR>Dwight<BR><BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider@comcast.net><BR>To: "Western PA Trolley discussion" <BR><pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org><BR>Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 5:56 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [PRCo] FYI-Pittsburgh Neighborhood Map<BR><BR><BR>Times change Herb. My grandmother and grandfather moved to an address on <BR>Veterans Street after they were married. That is a north-south street on <BR>the top of the hill, to the east side of Perrysville Avenue and to the north <BR>of Charles Street. My mother always remembered the Veterans Street home.<BR><BR>I have no idea when my grandparents moved to Delaware Avenue at the corner <BR>of Chemung Street out by Riverview Park (a block up the hill from <BR>Perrysville Avenue) but judging from pictures of my mother and relatives, I <BR>would suggest early 1920s. At that time, my Grandpap was living the <BR>American dream. He was a self-employed electrical contractor in a growing <BR>city. His jobs were usually large buildings, not houses. He had a wife <BR>and two kids. He earned enough to put two kids into college. And we <BR>lived among similar people so that tells you what the homes along <BR>Perrysville Avenue from Charles Street to the city line were line in the <BR>1920s, 1930s, 1940s.<BR><BR>Even though my grandmother moved out in 1962 and died two years later, over <BR>the years I have continued to drive up that way to see how the neighborhood <BR>has changed.<BR><BR>If you look at Google Maps or Bing Maps satellite views, you will see that <BR>more than half the homes on Veteran Street have become vacant lots. <BR>Obviously, in later years the people who bought them didn't have the money <BR>to maintain them and one by one they were demolished.<BR><BR>In the 1950s I recall being asked by Grandma to walk down to a hardware <BR>store at Perrysville and Charles and buy a toilet plunger for her. That <BR>was still a pretty decent neighborhood shopping area. Still had an corner <BR>food store operated by The Great Atlantic and Pacific Tea Company. But <BR>obviously, as you said Herb, it has changed.<BR><BR>After World War II, there were a few empty lots on Perrysville Avenue beyond <BR>Riverview Park that were filled in with new homes.<BR>Last time I looked, the complexion has changed … well to do down to poor. <BR>You thought I was going to say white to black, didn't you? Well, this week <BR>we received a phone call telling us we are getting the third interracial <BR>marriage in this family. (Both of them have doctorate degrees.) You <BR>don't throw rocks when you live in mixed families … you love your great <BR>grandkids.<BR><BR>What I think happened was best explained in a book written by an urban <BR>studies professor at Franklin & Marshall College here in Lancaster. The <BR>prof used Lancaster as his object lesson but it applies equally well in <BR>Pittsburgh or Baltimore or almost any other city. David Schuyler, in "A <BR>City Transformed, Redevelopment, Race, and Suburbanization 1940-1980 in <BR>Lancaster, Pennsylvania" explains what we did wrong. One of his <BR>significant points is that the politicians told us that the problems of <BR>urban ghettos would simply go away if we tore them down. He points out <BR>that without doing anything to change things like segregation, education, <BR>and other issues, all you do when you tear down one neighborhood is move the <BR>people to another one. In Pittsburgh, in the late 1950s, we tore down the <BR>Lower Hill because it was an embarrassment to have a slum right next to <BR>downtown. In doing so, we moved the slum to Homewood, Braddock, <BR>Wilkinsburg, Mount Oliver and Perry Hilltop. (I am not recommending <BR>Amazon; just happens they sell the book. I recommend the book.)<BR><BR>http://www.amazon.com/City-Transformed-Redevelopment-Suburbanization-Pennsylvania/dp/B008G4VGQE/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1369950323&sr=1-2&keywords=author%3A+David+Schuyler<BR><BR><BR><BR>On May 30, 2013, at 4:31 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:<BR><BR>> Ross Garage bus drivers usually referred to Northview Heights as Murder<BR>> Heights. The Devil made me say that............but it's true.<BR>><BR>><BR>> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Bob Rathke <bobrathke@comcast.net> wrote:<BR>><BR>>> The area northeast of the East St. Bridge was called Summer Hill - this<BR>>> area was lightly populated, and was between City View View and Reserve<BR>>> Townbship, but after the public housing development there in<BR>>> 1961-62, Summer Hill became known as Northview Heights.<BR>>><BR>>> ----- Original Message -----<BR>>> From: "BobDietrich" <bob.dietrich1@verizon.net><BR>>> To: "Western PA Trolley discussion" <<BR>>> pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org><BR>>> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 12:06:56 PM<BR>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] FYI-Pittsburgh Neighborhood Map<BR>>><BR>>> There is a recent history of "Allegheny City: A History of Pittsburgh's<BR>>> North Side" available from Amazon and others. It gets into all the<BR>>> NortSide<BR>>> neighborhoods, how the formed and who lived there. Not much on <BR>>> streetcars<BR>>> but there is a photo of Derrick's ancestor.<BR>>><BR>>> Bob<BR>>><BR>>> -----Original Message-----<BR>>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org] On Behalf Of<BR>>> Fred<BR>>> Schneider<BR>>> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 12:31 PM<BR>>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion<BR>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] FYI-Pittsburgh Neighborhood Map<BR>>><BR>>> Destination 21 Fineview was route 125 Nunnery Hill. You are correct.<BR>>> This line was built in 1908 and later.<BR>>><BR>>> The observatory that Derrick's ancestor created on top of the hill was <BR>>> part<BR>>> of the Western University of Pennsylvania that moved to Oakland and was<BR>>> renamed University of Pittsburgh. I think the university move took place<BR>>> just after the City of Allegheny became part of Pittsburgh. So that <BR>>> would<BR>>> probably be 1910 or earlier. Look it up in Wikipedia.<BR>>><BR>>> Destination 8 Perrysville was route 106 Perrysville Avenue. It began in<BR>>> December 1887 or February 1888 (I have two conflicting dates) from North<BR>>> Avenue over Federal Street as far as the Perrysville Plank Road under the<BR>>> name Observatory Hill Passenger Railway using underground power<BR>>> distribution<BR>>> (conduit). In 1889 it became part of the Federal Street and Pleasant<BR>>> Valley Railway.<BR>>> By 1902 it was running as far as the East Street Extension.<BR>>><BR>>> The observatory appears off Observatory Ave east of Perrysville on plate <BR>>> 5.<BR>>> Plate 4 may also be useful.<BR>>><BR>>> http://digital.library.pitt.edu/maps/90v01ind.html<BR>>><BR>>> http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/image-idx?view=entry;cc=maps<BR>>> ;<BR>>> entryid=x-90v01p05<BR>>><BR>>> I think this clearly demonstrates, gentlemen, that what we are now <BR>>> calling<BR>>> Fineview and which was called Nunnery Hill after it became part of<BR>>> Pittsburgh, was Observatory Hill when it was the City of Allegheny.<BR>>><BR>>> Eventually another observatory was erected on the northeast side of<BR>>> Riverview Park . I think it is Observatory Street off Perrysville Avenue <BR>>> .<BR>>> it is near the north end of Watson Blvd. That would account for people<BR>>> not<BR>>> knowing where the original Observatory Hill Passenger Railway ran.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> On May 30, 2013, at 8:42 AM, Bob Rathke wrote:<BR>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>> My grandparents always referred to Fineview as Nunn ery Hill.<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>> ----- Original Message -----<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider@comcast.net><BR>>>> To: "Western PA Trolley discussion"<BR>>>> <pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org><BR>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:36:38 AM<BR>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] FYI-Pittsburgh Neighborhood Map<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>> I have a problem with the south side. Mt. Oliver is an independent<BR>>> borough but the map shows it as part of the city. It is that area<BR>>> surrounded by Knoxville, Carrick, Beltzhoover (not named), Arlington,<BR>>> Allentown, and the slopes.<BR>>>><BR>>>> East End? The Lower Hill District used to be considered separate from<BR>>> the Hill District. Highland Park is a city park. Should that not be<BR>>> considered Highland. Brushton is missing.<BR>>>><BR>>>> I have a feeling in my gut that neighborhoods are being moved because we<BR>>> have no memory of where they were. Have we forgotten places like <BR>>> Glenwood?<BR>>> Do Lincoln or Larimer actually touch Shadyside? Should not Homewood <BR>>> touch<BR>>> S'Liberty?<BR>>>><BR>>>> In the northside? As we redeveloped it, we put new names on an old<BR>>> city.<BR>>> The entire north side was the City of Allegheny until the City of<BR>>> Pittsburgh<BR>>> orchestrated a takeover in nineteen aught and seven. Now we have <BR>>> created<BR>>> areas called West Allegheny, Allegheny Center and East Allegheny and <BR>>> North<BR>>> Shore? Huh? I though they were just the Northside? And how did<BR>>> Observatory Hill get moved all the way out to the city boundary? Seems <BR>>> to<BR>>> me the old Observatory run by Mr. Brashaer at the college was in the<BR>>> Fineview District????? That area they are calling Observatory Hill<BR>>> includes what we would have called Riverview Park and even far beyond <BR>>> that.<BR>>><BR>>>><BR>>>> But we have the same problem in a lot of cities. Here in Lancaster<BR>>> County there were three villages on route 23 northeast of Lancaster:<BR>>> Leacock, Leola and Bareville in order as you go northeast. Today no one<BR>>> seems to know where they were and we have moved them and overlapped them<BR>>> and<BR>>> in some cases you will find businesses in one village named after a town<BR>>> five miles away. We don't remember.<BR>>>><BR>>>> Try this map<BR>>>><BR>>>> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/76/Pittsburgh_Pennsylvania_<BR>>>> neighborhoods_fade.svg<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>> On May 28, 2013, at 10:52 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:<BR>>>><BR>>>>> Can anyone remember the East End neighborhood which is not listed on<BR>>>>> this map?<BR>>>>><BR>>>>><BR>>>>> On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 10:49 PM, Herb Brannon <hrbran@cavtel.net><BR>>> wrote:<BR>>><BR>>>>><BR>>>>>> The last post made mention of a district of Pittsburgh called the<BR>>>>>> Flats, actually named South Side Flats. This is in opposition to<BR>>>>>> another neighborhood named South Side Slopes.<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> I have attached a map of Pittsburgh neighborhoods since some areas<BR>>>>>> now have new names and some areas which never had names now do have<BR>>> names.<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> --<BR>>>>>> Herb Brannon<BR>>>>>> Back In The Burgh !<BR>>>>>> GO PENS !<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>><BR>>>>><BR>>>>><BR>>>>> --<BR>>>>> Herb Brannon<BR>>>>> Back In The Burgh !<BR>>>>> GO PENS !<BR>>>>><BR>>>>><BR>>>>><BR>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was<BR>>>>> scrubbed...<BR>>>>> URL:<BR>>>>> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments<BR>>>>> /20130528/ae5968b0/attachment.html<BR>>>>> _______________________________________________<BR>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>>>> Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was<BR>>>> scrubbed...<BR>>>> URL:<BR>>>> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/<BR>>>> 20130529/30f0391f/attachment.html<BR>>>> _______________________________________________<BR>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>>> Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was<BR>>>> scrubbed...<BR>>>> URL:<BR>>>> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/<BR>>>> 20130530/402ce577/attachment.html<BR>>>> _______________________________________________<BR>>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>>> Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> _______________________________________________<BR>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>> Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> _______________________________________________<BR>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>> Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> -------------- next part --------------<BR>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<BR>>> URL:<BR>>> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130530/0c8d9252/attachment.html<BR>>> _______________________________________________<BR>>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>> Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> -- <BR>> Herb Brannon<BR>> Back In The Burgh !<BR>> GO PENS !<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> -------------- next part --------------<BR>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<BR>> URL: <BR>> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130530/377d59c7/attachment.html<BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>> Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>-------------- next part --------------<BR>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<BR>URL: <BR>http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130530/fac1145e/attachment.html<BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR></P></div>
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