<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>Who says they (prospective passengers) HAVE to live in Allegheny County? That's why there are so many Park and Ride Lots all over the area. In fact, if a commuter is not early enough to get into the P and R Lot they are not getting a parking space. Most of the lots along the trolley lines are full between 6:30am and 7:30am each weekday. <br>
<br></div>Also, maybe I'm missing something, but what does the first sentence of your post mean? I don't see a correlation between today's PAT headway's and people hired in the early 1980s ?? Like I said, maybe I'm missing something there. I would like to know how the two are related to each other.<br>
<br></div>I would also tell you Fred, to come into the actual "city" sometime. There is a world outside PTM and Meadowlands, PA. Drive through South Side, Shadyside, East Liberty, Beechview, Brookline, Carrick, etc. and see what myself and at least one other person on The List talk about. Even Mt Oliver, in spite of it's reputation has every storefront on and near Brownsville Road occupied with operating businesses. East Liberty is the one to really look at. The streets are open again and you would not recognize the place today. Many, many new buildings and businesses along with crowded streets and sidewalks. Apparently, Fred, you did not hear the announcement made by the Brookings Institute on May 1st stating that Pittsburgh is the first (1st) major U.S. city to have fully recovered from the Great Recession of 2008. It's not all gloom and doom as you would have it seem. <br>
</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Fred Schneider <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:fwschneider@comcast.net" target="_blank">fwschneider@comcast.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Regardless of how heavy it is today, you are going back to people hired in the early 1980s. At that time the city of Pittsburgh had already shrunk to about 423,000 residents. The 2010 census showed 305,000.<br>
<br>
I have no 1980 number for Wilkinsburg. It had almost 30,000 in 1940 and about 16,000 in 2010.<br>
<br>
McKeesport is another for which I have no continuous record. That city had 55,000 in 1940 … probably around 35,000 in 1980. It was under 20,000 in 2010.<br>
<br>
Essentially, Allegheny county lost 200,000 people between 1980 and now. If they are not there, you cannot haul them. There might have still been a few kids in the 1970s who felt they didn't need a car or could borrow dad's car. Today it is probably a car for every licensed driver.<br>
<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Jun 30, 2013, at 12:54 AM, Herb Brannon wrote:<br>
<br>
> As far as talking to "fellow operators", no. They are probably residing in<br>
> Arizona or Flori-duh these days. PATransit has a strict policy of 25-years<br>
> then retire, no ifs, ans, or buts. That means that the "newest" operator I<br>
> could have known would have retired in 2008 or 2009.<br>
><br>
> The service, while still being very intense on some routes, is not what it<br>
> was in the 1970s and 1980s. They still call the rail vehicles "trolleys"<br>
> however. The equipment appears much newer these days than what it was back<br>
> in my era with PATransit. That goes for both buses and trolleys. Pittsburgh<br>
> always has special events going on someplace in the city. They do run<br>
> "two-car-trains" during special events times and weekday rush hours also.<br>
> There are far more "articulated" buses now than when I worked for them.<br>
> Also the route structure has changed a lot but it actually now seems to be<br>
> in tune with where the customers want to go, at least in the city and the<br>
> first and second rings of boroughs. Destination Signs are very interesting<br>
> now also. Aspects such as 44-Knoxville / 44 Downtown-Pennsylvania<br>
> Station ; 27 - Fairywood (used to be 27-Carnegie) ; 75-Wilkinsburg /<br>
> South Side-Oakland (A newer routing for the old 75 line) ; 61D-Murray<br>
> Avenue / 61D Waterfront (The old 68 line going to Homestead and not<br>
> continuing on to Kennywood and McKeesport) And many more interesting signs<br>
> on the buses. The trolleys, on the other hand, have very bland signs<br>
> reading "Red Line", "Blue Line", etc. Generally, PATransit is doing OK<br>
> right now. However, a source of dedicated funding is a must if public<br>
> transit is to continue as a viable alternative to the personal vehicle.<br>
><br>
> Traffic is snarled all over Pittsburgh from about 6am to 7pm every weekday.<br>
> This, of course, do to the terrain and the narrow roads. I stay off the<br>
> Parkways (there are now three, the East, West, and North Parkways) during<br>
> heavy traffic periods. I find that my shortcuts "over the mountains" may<br>
> take a few minutes longer but I keep moving better than on the Parkways.<br>
> The State Legislature is now debating a bill to provide some support to<br>
> transit authorities but it's not really enough. A change of politicians<br>
> from the conservatives to a more progressive bunch is needed before<br>
> anything will be done to make public transit better. After all, didn't you<br>
> know that we have a "right" to drive our vehicles, even if it does take two<br>
> hours to go fifteen miles and contributes to the destruction of the planet.<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 11:19 PM, Phillip Clark Campbell<br>
> <<a href="mailto:pcc_sr@yahoo.com">pcc_sr@yahoo.com</a>>wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Forbes field looks very good as does the aerial of the Point.<br>
>> The latter may be about 1940 as Fort Pitt Blvd appears intact from<br>
>> east of Liberty to the Smithield bridge. Clarity in this photo<br>
>> is much better than most.<br>
>><br>
>> Mr.Brannon-- How does Pat compare now as to when you left?<br>
>> Have you seen and talked to former fellow operators? What<br>
>> is your impression of the system?<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Phil<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --- On Thu, 6/27/13, Herb Brannon <<a href="mailto:hrbran@cavtel.net">hrbran@cavtel.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> From: Herb Brannon <<a href="mailto:hrbran@cavtel.net">hrbran@cavtel.net</a>><br>
>> Subject: [PRCo] Mixed Bag Of Old Pittsburgh<br>
>> To: "Western PA Trolley discussion" <<br>
>> <a href="mailto:pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org</a>><br>
>> Date: Thursday, June 27, 2013, 9:12 PM<br>
>><br>
>> I stumbled upon a "varied" lot of photos of Old Pittsburgh. If anyone has<br>
>> any additional info on the individual photos, I'm all ears.<br>
>><br>
>> No, I did not put these through the "photo shrinking" program, so some are<br>
>> big and some are small.<br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Herb Brannon<br>
>> Back In The Burgh !<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> -------------- next part --------------<br>
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
>> URL:<br>
>> <a href="http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130628/e060b9f0/attachment.html" target="_blank">http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130628/e060b9f0/attachment.html</a><br>
>> -------------- next part --------------<br>
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br>
>> Name: PghPA01PennIncline.JPG<br>
>> Type: image/jpeg<br>
>> Size: 74524 bytes<br>
>> Desc: not available<br>
>> Url :<br>
>> <a href="http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130628/e060b9f0/attachment.jpe" target="_blank">http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130628/e060b9f0/attachment.jpe</a><br>
>> -------------- next part --------------<br>
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br>
>> Name: PghPA02Downtown1930s.jpg<br>
>> Type: image/jpeg<br>
>> Size: 65654 bytes<br>
>> Desc: not available<br>
>> Url :<br>
>> <a href="http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130628/e060b9f0/attachment.jpg" target="_blank">http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130628/e060b9f0/attachment.jpg</a><br>
>> -------------- next part --------------<br>
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br>
>> Name: PghPA03MarketSq.jpg<br>
>> Type: image/jpeg<br>
>> Size: 204195 bytes<br>
>> Desc: not available<br>
>> Url :<br>
>> <a href="http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130628/e060b9f0/attachment-0001.jpg" target="_blank">http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130628/e060b9f0/attachment-0001.jpg</a><br>
>> -------------- next part --------------<br>
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br>
>> Name: PghPA04 c1905.jpg<br>
>> Type: image/jpeg<br>
>> Size: 1648732 bytes<br>
>> Desc: not available<br>
>> Url :<br>
>> <a href="http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130628/e060b9f0/attachment-0002.jpg" target="_blank">http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130628/e060b9f0/attachment-0002.jpg</a><br>
>> -------------- next part --------------<br>
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br>
>> Name: PghPA05DowntownFromPoint1945.jpg<br>
>> Type: image/jpeg<br>
>> Size: 298445 bytes<br>
>> Desc: not available<br>
>> Url :<br>
>> <a href="http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130628/e060b9f0/attachment-0003.jpg" target="_blank">http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130628/e060b9f0/attachment-0003.jpg</a><br>
>> -------------- next part --------------<br>
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br>
>> Name: PghPA06Soho.jpg<br>
>> Type: image/jpeg<br>
>> Size: 351494 bytes<br>
>> Desc: not available<br>
>> Url :<br>
>> <a href="http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130628/e060b9f0/attachment-0004.jpg" target="_blank">http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130628/e060b9f0/attachment-0004.jpg</a><br>
>> -------------- next part --------------<br>
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br>
>> Name: PghPA08RiverTraffic.jpg<br>
>> Type: image/jpeg<br>
>> Size: 476882 bytes<br>
>> Desc: not available<br>
>> Url :<br>
>> <a href="http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130628/e060b9f0/attachment-0005.jpg" target="_blank">http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130628/e060b9f0/attachment-0005.jpg</a><br>
>> -------------- next part --------------<br>
>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br>
>> Name: PghPA09ForbesField1927.jpg<br>
>> Type: image/jpeg<br>
>> Size: 146503 bytes<br>
>> Desc: not available<br>
>> Url :<br>
>> <a href="http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130628/e060b9f0/attachment-0006.jpg" target="_blank">http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130628/e060b9f0/attachment-0006.jpg</a><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org</a><br>
>> <a href="https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways" target="_blank">https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> -------------- next part --------------<br>
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
>> URL:<br>
>> <a href="http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130629/4362e861/attachment.html" target="_blank">http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130629/4362e861/attachment.html</a><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org</a><br>
>> <a href="https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways" target="_blank">https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Herb Brannon<br>
> Back In The Burgh !<br>
> Let's Go Bucs<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> -------------- next part --------------<br>
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
</div></div>> URL: <a href="http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130630/0af572a9/attachment.html" target="_blank">http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130630/0af572a9/attachment.html</a><br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">> _______________________________________________<br>
> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org</a><br>
> <a href="https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways" target="_blank">https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways" target="_blank">https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div>Herb Brannon<br>Back In The Burgh !<br></div>Let's Go Bucs<br></div>
</div>