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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'> <BR>Of course, Dwight, one-person crew. And this was just prior to exact change.<BR> <BR>Well, perhaps I should qualify that. There were a couple occasions where there was a two-person CTA bus crew. North Park didn't have trackless, so if you wanted to take a 'spin' in a Marmon on Grand or Pulaski, after completing your 'swing' shift, would meet up with a buddy working a p.m. out of North Ave. The "trade" was an occasional two-person bus crew on the Montrose-Irving extension which had 'new look' Flxibles.<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR><br> <BR><div>> From: dwightlong@verizon.net<br>> To: pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 15:20:22 -0400<br>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59<br>> <br>> <br>> John<br>> <br>> Did the CTA use two man crews on the buses? I did not think so, but who <br>> knows.<br>> <br>> When I first started traveling to South America in the 90s (hey, that's <br>> 1990s for you smart asses out there) most of the buses were two man <br>> operated.<br>> <br>> Dwight<br>> <br>> ----- Original Message ----- <br>> From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler@hotmail.com><br>> To: "Western PA Trolley discussion" <br>> <pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org><br>> Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 1:17 PM<br>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> New Orleans had two man/women crews on St. Charles into the 'exact fare' <br>> era. On a 1971 visit, the women conductors only job was to open and close <br>> the door - maybe also give a 'two bell' signal. About all I recall of that <br>> visit was: "this is beyond stupid". As a disclaimer, this biased <br>> viewpoint was probably due to two summers driving buses for Chicago Transit <br>> Auth.<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> > From: fwschneider@comcast.net<br>> > Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 12:57:24 -0400<br>> > To: pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> > Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59<br>> ><br>> > The route cards ended near the onset of World War II when PRC realized <br>> > they did not have the staff resources for such petty trivial things as <br>> > keeping paper records of every little diversion. Those route cards <br>> > showed everything…. If a fire downtown required a diversion for two <br>> > hours, they were posted to the cards. If a route was altered over night <br>> > so a switch could be replaced, the route cards were annotated.<br>> ><br>> > I did not waste my time typing every trivial detail. I only copied <br>> > permanent route changes. In an era where where schools are no longer <br>> > teaching children to read and write cursive, my objective was to create a <br>> > file that dumbed-down people could read if they were no longer able to <br>> > read the original route cards (which are in cursive).<br>> ><br>> > I did not have access to my old ERA Headlights magazines at the time. <br>> > They had been moved to the library at Arden and I was temporarily in an <br>> > apartment. I have inserted final abandonment dates but there are other <br>> > things that I don't have such as when the northside routes were shifted <br>> > from the 7th St/6th St loop to the 6th St. Bridge (it was sometime in <br>> > 1957).<br>> ><br>> > I also created several ancillary files such as the dates that low-floor <br>> > cars went into service on each route (they were usually in the route <br>> > cards) and the dates that the lines were fully one-man.<br>> ><br>> > By the way, if anyone gives a s**t, the one-man conversions were a <br>> > problem. There were sometimes dates posted in the route cards that <br>> > conflicted with scheduled manhours. I went with the hours. When the <br>> > weekday hours dropped to the point that it was obvious that the conductors <br>> > had finally disappeared, I took that as the date. The system was <br>> > completely converted to one-man in 1937 when the last trailers on West <br>> > View - Belleview (10, 11, 15) were replaced by single cars on Feb. 8, 1937 <br>> > and route 13 lost its trailers 28 days later. Route 27 (Carnegie) began <br>> > weekday one-man cars in 1931 but the crew hours on weekdays did not drop <br>> > sufficiently to indicate complete loss of conductors until March 15, 1937.<br>> ><br>> > But the thing that amazed me about PRC was it had to be the largest system <br>> > in the nation to begin conversion to one-man cars and perhaps the first to <br>> > finish the job. The company attempted to put one-man cars on the Castle <br>> > Shannon - Mt. Lebanon shuttle in 1920 but went back to two-man cars when <br>> > the crews refused to work them. When they converted Bon Air, 36th St. <br>> > Transfer and North Washington in 1923, the company's attitude was more <br>> > along the lines of, 'we are the employer, you are the worker, you can work <br>> > where we put you or find another job. By 1930 route 82, one of the <br>> > heaviest lines in the system was fully one-man, seven days a week. Route <br>> > 87 Ardmore, hauling people from Wilkinsburg to the Westinghouse Electric <br>> > and Air Brake was one of the earliest conversions … November 10, 1924. <br>> > Route 88 Frankstown went one-man between 1930 and 1931.<br>> ><br>> > Now think of Chicago … the last routes in 1958 were two-man. <br>> > Philadelphia still had a small number of conductors in 1971. Illinois <br>> > Terminal never ran a PCC without a conductor. Boston had those <br>> > center-entrance cars that required conductors into the late 1940s. San <br>> > Francisco had conductors into the late 1950s. New Orleans had the second <br>> > man until the middle 1960s.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > On Jul 9, 2013, at 11:50 AM, Dwight Long wrote:<br>> ><br>> > > Fred<br>> > ><br>> > > The final change to route 65, other than its discontinuance as a rail <br>> > > operation, was its extension from Munhall Loop to East Pittsburgh over <br>> > > the former route 55 trackage. Not sure when this occurred (when the <br>> > > Glenwood bridge was closed to trams) but it was in effect, AIR, until <br>> > > the end of tram operations from Lincoln Place. I took pictures of the <br>> > > operation in early 1965.<br>> > ><br>> > > Dwight<br>> > ><br>> > > From: Fred Schneider<br>> > > Sent: Tuesday, 09 July, 2013 11:35<br>> > > To: Western PA Trolley discussion<br>> > > Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59<br>> > > Route cards for route 506 Homestead and Homeville show the following (if <br>> > > I transcribed it correctly) … never did find anyone willing to proofread <br>> > > my work. There are certain dates such as 1930 and 1937 where they <br>> > > simply listed the routes even if they didn't change so the dates are not <br>> > > always indicative of a change unless it is so stated. Usually a change <br>> > > only shows the specific streets that were changed. fws<br>> > ><br>> > > January 1902 … from a point in Homeville along a township road through <br>> > > Munhall to 9th Avenue in Homestead and over 8th Avenue to Hays Street.<br>> > ><br>> > > 1917: From a point in Homeville-Greenspring Avenue, Ravine Street, 8th <br>> > > Avenue to Hays Street.<br>> > ><br>> > > July 17 to July 19, 1919; August 29 to Sept 1, 1919 and August 18 to <br>> > > August 22, 1919 … line split into two sections at bridge above Homeville <br>> > > Siding because of unsafe condition of bridge,<br>> > ><br>> > > August 10, 1925: Length of line: round trip 5.23 miles.<br>> > ><br>> > > May 14, 1927 to June 19, 1927: Shuttle service from Terrace Step stop <br>> > > to end of line, Homeville.<br>> > ><br>> > > Feb. 14, 1928: Route 506 combined with route 507 (Homestead-Mifflin). <br>> > > One man operation began. See route 507 for history 1928 to 1944.<br>> > ><br>> > > July 9, 1944: Began operation from Homeville to 18th and West Streets. <br>> > > Route 65 operating SE PCC cars from Munhall Loop to Lincoln Place loop. <br>> > > Route 59 used double end low-floor cars.<br>> > ><br>> > > March 7, 1953: Last full day of route 59.<br>> > > ______________________________________________________________________________________________________<br>> > ><br>> > > Original route 507 operated only November 1902. Have not found route <br>> > > card.<br>> > ><br>> > > April 1, 1928: On this date, route 507 started under supervision of <br>> > > Pittsburgh Railways Company using schedules and equipment formerly used <br>> > > by Homestead and Mifflin Street Railway.<br>> > ><br>> > > August 24, 1928: Shuttle began operating between Lincoln Place and Main <br>> > > and McWhinney, also Main and McWhinney and 8th Avenue, Homestead.<br>> > ><br>> > > November 21, 1928: Through cars Lincoln Place to 13th and West <br>> > > Streets, Homestead.<br>> > ><br>> > > November 23, 1928: Through cars Lincoln Place to 8th and West Sts., <br>> > > Homestead.<br>> > ><br>> > > December 14, 1928: Combined with route 506 Homeville and one-man <br>> > > operation began.<br>> > ><br>> > > January 1, 1930: Main St., Center Ave., Main St., Walnut Ave., 22nd <br>> > > Ave., West St., Amity St., 8th Ave., Munhall St., Ravine St., <br>> > > Greenspring Ave. to Hays St. in Homeville.<br>> > ><br>> > > March 15, 1937: Lincoln Place along Interboro Avenue and Main St. to <br>> > > West St. to 12th St., Amith., 8th Ave., Munhall Junction, Ravine St., <br>> > > Greenspring Ave. to High St.<br>> > ><br>> > > July 9, 1944: Homeville end split from Lincoln Place end and <br>> > > designated route 59. Lincoln Place to Munhall loop designated route <br>> > > 65. Muldfowney Loop in Lincoln Place opened this date permitting PCC <br>> > > service on route 65 and the line was extended eastward a short distance <br>> > > from Interboro Avenue to Muldowney Street.<br>> > ><br>> > > October 31, 1956 Transit Guide: Munhall to Lincoln Place over 8th <br>> > > Avenue in Munhall and McKeesport, Amity St., 12th St., West St., 22nd <br>> > > St., Interboro Ave. and private right-of-way to Muldowney Loop. <br>> > > Unchanged from July 9, 1944.<br>> > ><br>> > > Sept. 5, 1965: Last full day of service route 65.<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > On Jul 9, 2013, at 9:52 AM, Lattner, Raymond wrote:<br>> > ><br>> > >> Hello. I was looking at an older historic topo map and noticed that <br>> > >> route 59<br>> > >> traveled up Ravine Street and then split at the intersection of <br>> > >> Greensprings Ave., Coal Rd and Black Path (road names based on Google <br>> > >> Maps).<br>> > >><br>> > >> One line continued up Greensprings Ave. to what is called Terrace and <br>> > >> ends at what I believe is High Street and Bowes Ave. The other line<br>> > >> on PRW seems to follow Duquesne Ave then Homestead Duquesne Rd to Coal <br>> > >> Rd. to terminate at Coal Rd. Extension and Bellwood Rd.<br>> > >><br>> > >> I have attached that section of the map. My first question is, is this <br>> > >> correct? If so, how did these lines operate and what destinations <br>> > >> signs<br>> > >> were used? When did PRCo stop using the line to Bellwood Rd.? Maybe I <br>> > >> have this wrong and it could be a coal mine RR?<br>> > >><br>> > >> If this was discussed before I apologize.<br>> > >><br>> > >> Oh, map web site in case some of you do not have it. <br>> > >> http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/topomaps/f?p=262:1:4149522851964442<br>> > >><br>> > >> Thanks.<br>> > >><br>> > >><br>> > >> Raymond E. Lattner<br>> > >><br>> > >><br>> > >><br>> > >> -------------- next part --------------<br>> > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> > >> URL: <br>> > >> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130709/0226d41c/attachment.html<br>> > >> -------------- next part --------------<br>> > >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br>> > >> Name: Whitaker historic topo.jpg<br>> > >> Type: image/jpeg<br>> > >> Size: 312786 bytes<br>> > >> Desc: Whitaker historic topo.jpg<br>> > >> Url : <br>> > >> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130709/0226d41c/attachment.jpg<br>> > >> _______________________________________________<br>> > >> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>> > >> Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> > >> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > _______________________________________________<br>> > > Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>> > > Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> > > https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > -------------- next part --------------<br>> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> > > URL: <br>> > > http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130709/192bf0b2/attachment.html<br>> > > _______________________________________________<br>> > > Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>> > > Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> > > https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>> > Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> > https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> URL: <br>> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130709/f8d76802/attachment.html<br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>> Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>> Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<br></div> </div>
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