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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'> <BR>The difference between 20 years of rust (including a trip thru paint shop for 'v' front) - and seventy years of rust. <BR><br> <BR><div>> From: fwschneider@comcast.net<br>> Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 12:37:54 -0400<br>> To: pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59<br>> <br>> Car looked very nice then … quite a contrast to the bucket of rust at PTM today.<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> On Jul 10, 2013, at 8:04 AM, Lattner, Raymond wrote:<br>> <br>> > Ok, attached is the Munhall Kennywood 55A picture at SHJ. Which is what you guys told me and makes it clear.<br>> > The 55A outer loops would be Munhall or Kennywood.<br>> > <br>> > Ray<br>> > <br>> > -----Original Message-----<br>> > From: pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org] On Behalf Of John Swindler<br>> > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 12:06 AM<br>> > To: Western PA Trolley discussion<br>> > Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > There was a railfan photo stop at Munhall Loop. The destination sign reads: FARE $4.50 - with red background.<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> >> From: hrbran@cavtel.net<br>> >> Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 21:21:52 -0400<br>> >> To: pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> >> Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59<br>> >> <br>> >> Why don't you post the photo?<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 9:14 PM, Ray <rayprco53@verizon.net> wrote:<br>> >> <br>> >>> Did find a picture at South Hills Junction with a sign that reads, <br>> >>> 55A Homestead Munhall Kennywood. Which makes sense with what you <br>> >>> guys are telling me.Relooking at my other pics, maybe it reads 55A <br>> >>> Homestrad Munhall via 2 Ave. In my defense the pic of that is blurry.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Sent from my LG Smartphone on Sprint<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Ray <rayprco53@verizon.net> wrote:<br>> >>> <br>> >>>> Regarding 55A, roll sign reads Homestead Braddock via 2 Ave. What <br>> >>>> is<br>> >>> missing is E. Pgh. So i would assume it went to Braddock. Thats the <br>> >>> pictures that i have. Is the rollsign maybe a fan trip sign?<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Sent from my LG Smartphone on Sprint<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>> Dwight Long <dwightlong@verizon.net> wrote:<br>> >>>> <br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> Ray<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> I don't understand the question. It used the Munhall loop to turn <br>> >>>>> back toward Pittsburgh, just as the 65 used it to turn back to Lincoln Place.<br>> >>>>> 55A did not go to Braddock. That was the 55 itself.<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> Dwight<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----<br>> >>>>> From: "Ray" <rayprco53@verizon.net><br>> >>>>> To: "Western PA Trolley discussion"<br>> >>>>> <pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org><br>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 5:01 PM<br>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59<br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>> <br>> >>>>>> Regarding 55A, how was the turn around Munhall loop? If it was <br>> >>>>>> how did<br>> >>> it<br>> >>>>>> get to Braddock?<br>> >>>>>> <br>> >>>>>> Sent from my LG Smartphone on Sprint<br>> >>>>>> <br>> >>>>>> Dwight Long <dwightlong@verizon.net> wrote:<br>> >>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>> Ray<br>> >>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>> Same as 55, except outer end was Munhall Loop (and in summers <br>> >>>>>>> 1958 and prior at Kennywood Park).<br>> >>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>> Dwight<br>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----<br>> >>>>>>> From: "Lattner, Raymond" <rlattner@pa.gov><br>> >>>>>>> To: "Western PA Trolley discussion"<br>> >>>>>>> <pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org><br>> >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 12:50 PM<br>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59<br>> >>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>> Since you guys brought up routes 65 and 55 trackage, can <br>> >>>>>>>> someone<br>> >>> provide<br>> >>>>>>>> the route of 55A?<br>> >>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>> Thanks.<br>> >>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>> Yes, I now agree probably a coal rr on that side.<br>> >>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>> Oh one more thing, I was going through all my photos and I do <br>> >>>>>>>> not<br>> >>> have a<br>> >>>>>>>> low floor type car with<br>> >>>>>>>> a Forbes Field destination. Has anyone seen a photo of a low <br>> >>>>>>>> floor<br>> >>> type<br>> >>>>>>>> car with this destination?<br>> >>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>> Thanks again.<br>> >>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>> Ray<br>> >>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----<br>> >>>>>>>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org<br>> >>>>>>>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org] On <br>> >>>>>>>> Behalf<br>> >>> Of<br>> >>>>>>>> John Swindler<br>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 12:36 PM<br>> >>>>>>>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion<br>> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59<br>> >>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>> Wasn't the 65 extension via Rankin Bridge to E. Pgh. when 58 <br>> >>>>>>>> and 55 converted to bus by PAT??? Might be due to Glenwood <br>> >>>>>>>> bridge - or<br>> >>> might<br>> >>>>>>>> have been due to repaving of last mile of Second Ave. track <br>> >>>>>>>> east of Greenfield Ave.<br>> >>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>> Going to guess summer of 1964. PAT had bought 150 new GM <br>> >>>>>>>> buses, but story I heard was that some of the buses from <br>> >>>>>>>> independents were much worse than expected. Otherwise 65 would <br>> >>>>>>>> not have lasted a bit longer.<br>> >>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>> There was an 'owl' car that ran S. Hills. Jct. out Second Ave. <br>> >>>>>>>> to Munhall Loop (E. Pgh???) , then to Lincoln Place, back to <br>> >>>>>>>> Munhall and then returned to S. Hills. Jct. There were a <br>> >>>>>>>> bunch of PRMA members on<br>> >>> that<br>> >>>>>>>> last trip, but I managed to doze off around 4 a.m. and have no <br>> >>>>>>>> recollection passing thru West Homestead on return trip.<br>> >>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> From: dwightlong@verizon.net<br>> >>>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> >>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 11:50:00 -0400<br>> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> Fred<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> The final change to route 65, other than its discontinuance <br>> >>>>>>>>> as a<br>> >>> rail<br>> >>>>>>>>> operation, was its extension from Munhall Loop to East <br>> >>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh<br>> >>> over<br>> >>>>>>>>> the former route 55 trackage. Not sure when this occurred <br>> >>>>>>>>> (when the Glenwood bridge was closed to trams) but it was in <br>> >>>>>>>>> effect, AIR,<br>> >>> until<br>> >>>>>>>>> the<br>> >>>>>>>>> end of tram operations from Lincoln Place. I took pictures <br>> >>>>>>>>> of the operation in early 1965.<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> Dwight<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> From: Fred Schneider<br>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 09 July, 2013 11:35<br>> >>>>>>>>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion<br>> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] PRCo Route 59 Route cards for route 506 <br>> >>>>>>>>> Homestead and Homeville show the following (if I transcribed <br>> >>>>>>>>> it correctly) ... never did find anyone willing to<br>> >>>>>>>>> proofread my work. There are certain dates such as 1930 and 1937<br>> >>>>>>>>> where<br>> >>>>>>>>> they simply listed the routes even if they didn't change so <br>> >>>>>>>>> the<br>> >>> dates<br>> >>>>>>>>> are<br>> >>>>>>>>> not always indicative of a change unless it is so stated. Usually<br>> >>> a<br>> >>>>>>>>> change only shows the specific streets that were changed. <br>> >>>>>>>>> fws<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> January 1902 ... from a point in Homeville along a township <br>> >>>>>>>>> road through Munhall to 9th Avenue in Homestead and over 8th <br>> >>>>>>>>> Avenue to Hays<br>> >>> Street.<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> 1917: From a point in Homeville-Greenspring Avenue, Ravine <br>> >>>>>>>>> Street,<br>> >>> 8th<br>> >>>>>>>>> Avenue to Hays Street.<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> July 17 to July 19, 1919; August 29 to Sept 1, 1919 and <br>> >>>>>>>>> August 18<br>> >>> to<br>> >>>>>>>>> August 22, 1919 ... line split into two sections at bridge <br>> >>>>>>>>> above Homeville Siding because of unsafe condition of bridge,<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> August 10, 1925: Length of line: round trip 5.23 miles.<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> May 14, 1927 to June 19, 1927: Shuttle service from Terrace <br>> >>>>>>>>> Step<br>> >>> stop<br>> >>>>>>>>> to<br>> >>>>>>>>> end of line, Homeville.<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> Feb. 14, 1928: Route 506 combined with route 507<br>> >>> (Homestead-Mifflin).<br>> >>>>>>>>> One man operation began. See route 507 for history 1928 to 1944.<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> July 9, 1944: Began operation from Homeville to 18th and <br>> >>>>>>>>> West<br>> >>> Streets.<br>> >>>>>>>>> Route 65 operating SE PCC cars from Munhall Loop to Lincoln <br>> >>>>>>>>> Place<br>> >>> loop.<br>> >>>>>>>>> Route 59 used double end low-floor cars.<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> March 7, 1953: Last full day of route 59.<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________<br>> >>> __<br>> >>>>>>>>> ________________________________<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> Original route 507 operated only November 1902. Have not <br>> >>>>>>>>> found<br>> >>> route<br>> >>>>>>>>> card.<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> April 1, 1928: On this date, route 507 started under supervision<br>> >>> of<br>> >>>>>>>>> Pittsburgh Railways Company using schedules and equipment <br>> >>>>>>>>> formerly<br>> >>> used<br>> >>>>>>>>> by Homestead and Mifflin Street Railway.<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> August 24, 1928: Shuttle began operating between Lincoln <br>> >>>>>>>>> Place and Main and McWhinney, also Main and McWhinney and 8th <br>> >>>>>>>>> Avenue, Homestead.<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> November 21, 1928: Through cars Lincoln Place to 13th and West<br>> >>>>>>>>> Streets,<br>> >>>>>>>>> Homestead.<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> November 23, 1928: Through cars Lincoln Place to 8th and <br>> >>>>>>>>> West Sts., Homestead.<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> December 14, 1928: Combined with route 506 Homeville and <br>> >>>>>>>>> one-man operation began.<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> January 1, 1930: Main St., Center Ave., Main St., Walnut <br>> >>>>>>>>> Ave., 22nd Ave., West St., Amity St., 8th Ave., Munhall St., <br>> >>>>>>>>> Ravine St., Greenspring Ave. to Hays St. in Homeville.<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> March 15, 1937: Lincoln Place along Interboro Avenue and Main St.<br>> >>> to<br>> >>>>>>>>> West St. to 12th St., Amith., 8th Ave., Munhall Junction, <br>> >>>>>>>>> Ravine<br>> >>> St.,<br>> >>>>>>>>> Greenspring Ave. to High St.<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> July 9, 1944: Homeville end split from Lincoln Place end and<br>> >>>>>>>>> designated<br>> >>>>>>>>> route 59. Lincoln Place to Munhall loop designated route 65.<br>> >>>>>>>>> Muldfowney Loop in Lincoln Place opened this date permitting <br>> >>>>>>>>> PCC service on route 65 and the line was extended eastward a <br>> >>>>>>>>> short distance from Interboro Avenue to Muldowney Street.<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> October 31, 1956 Transit Guide: Munhall to Lincoln Place <br>> >>>>>>>>> over 8th Avenue in Munhall and McKeesport, Amity St., 12th <br>> >>>>>>>>> St., West St., 22nd St., Interboro Ave. and private <br>> >>>>>>>>> right-of-way to Muldowney Loop.<br>> >>> Unchanged<br>> >>>>>>>>> from July 9, 1944.<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> Sept. 5, 1965: Last full day of service route 65.<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>> On Jul 9, 2013, at 9:52 AM, Lattner, Raymond wrote:<br>> >>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello. I was looking at an older historic topo map and <br>> >>>>>>>>>> noticed<br>> >>> that<br>> >>>>>>>>>> route 59 traveled up Ravine Street and then split at the <br>> >>>>>>>>>> intersection of Greensprings Ave., Coal Rd and Black Path <br>> >>>>>>>>>> (road names based<br>> >>> on<br>> >>>>>>>>>> Google Maps).<br>> >>>>>>>>>> <br>> >>>>>>>>>> One line continued up Greensprings Ave. to what is called <br>> >>>>>>>>>> Td◊í<br>> >>> fó'7B VW7Fñˆ‚ ó2¬ ó0£„„„„„‚ ‚ FÜó2 6˜'&V7CÚ ñb 6Ú¬ ܘr FñB FÜW6R <br>> >>> ∆ñÊW2 ˜ W& FR ÊB vÜ B „ „‚ óGG6'W&vÇ◊& ñ«v ó4 ÷ ñ∆÷ <br>> >>> ‚ÊFV÷VÁFóÇʘ&p£„„„„„‚ áGG 3¢Úˆ÷ ñ∆÷ ‚ÊFV÷VÁFóÇʘ&rˆ÷ ñ∆÷ ‚ˆ∆ó7FñÊfÚ˜ <br>> >>> óGG6'W&vÇ◊& ñ«v ó0£„„„„‡£„„„„‡£„„„„‡£„„„„‚<br>> >>> ““““““““““““““ ÊWáB 'B “““““““““““““–£„„„„‚ ‚ ÖD‘¬ GF 6Ü÷VÁB v 2<br>> >>> 67'V&&VB‚‚‡£„„„„‚ U$√†£„„„„‚ áGG ¢Úˆ÷ ñ∆÷ ‚ÊFV÷VÁFóÇʘ&r˜ ó W&÷ ñ¬˜ <br>> >>> óGG6'W&vÇ◊& ñ«v ó2ˆ GF 6Ü÷VÁG2Û# 3 s íˆ s CñSbˆ GF <br>> >>> 6Ü÷VÁBÊáF÷¿£„„„„‚ <br>> >>> ıııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııı£„„„„‚ óGG6'W&vÇ◊& <br>> >>> ñ«v ó2 ÷ ñ∆ñÊr ∆ó7@£„„„„‚ óGG6'W&vÇ◊& ñ«v ó4 ÷ ñ∆÷ <br>> >>> ‚ÊFV÷VÁFóÇʘ&p£„„„„‚ áGG 3¢Úˆ÷ ñ∆÷ ‚ÊFV÷VÁFóÇʘ&rˆ÷ ñ∆÷ ‚ˆ∆ó7FñÊfÚ˜ <br>> >>> óGG6'W&vÇ◊& ñ«v ó0£„„„„‡£„„„„‡£„„„„‡£„„„„‡£„„„„‚ <br>> >>> ıııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııı£„„„„‚ óGG6'W&vÇ◊& <br>> >>> ñ«v ó2 ÷ ñ∆ñÊr ∆ó7@£„„„„‚ óGG6'W&vÇ◊& ñ«v ó4 ÷ ñ∆÷ <br>> >>> ‚ÊFV÷VÁFóÇʘ&p£„„„„‚ áGG 3¢Úˆ÷ ñ∆÷ ‚ÊFV÷VÁFóÇʘ&rˆ÷ ñ∆÷ ‚ˆ∆ó7FñÊfÚ˜ <br>> >>> óGG6'W&vÇ◊& ñ«v <br>> >>> ó0£„„„„‡£„„„‡£„„„‡£„„„‡£„„„‡£„„„Âııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııı<br>> >>> ııııııııııı£„„„ óGG6'W&vÇ◊& ñ«v ó2 ÷ ñ∆ñÊr ∆ó7@£„„„ óGG6'W&vÇ◊& <br>> >>> ñ«v ó4 ÷ ñ∆÷ ‚ÊFV÷VÁFóÇʘ&p£„„„ÊáGG 3¢Úˆ÷ ñ∆÷ ‚ÊFV÷VÁFóÇʘ&rˆ÷ ñ∆÷!<br>> >>> ‚ˆ∆ó7FñÊfÚ˜ óGG6'W&vÇ◊& ñ«v ó0£„„‡£„„‡£„„‡£„„‡£„„‚ <br>> >>> ıııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııııı£„„‚ óGG6'W&vÇ◊& ñ«v <br>> >>> ó2 ÷ ñ∆ñÊr ∆ó7@£„„‚ óGG6'W&vÇ◊& ñ«v ó4 ÷ ñ∆÷ ‚ÊFV÷VÁFóÇʘ&p£„„‚ áGG <br>> >>> 3¢Úˆ÷ ñ∆÷ ‚ÊFV÷VÁFóÇʘ&rˆ÷ ñ∆÷ ‚ˆ∆ó7FñÊfÚ˜ óGG6'W&vÇ◊& ñ«v ó2<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>> >>> Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> >>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> --<br>> >> Herb Brannon<br>> >> Back In The Burgh !<br>> >> Let's Go Bucs<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was <br>> >> scrubbed...<br>> >> URL: <br>> >> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/<br>> >> 20130709/f7e6f2ed/attachment.html <br>> >> _______________________________________________<br>> >> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>> >> Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> >> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > -------------- next part --------------<br>> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> > URL: http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130710/9b578d5e/attachment.html<br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>> > Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> > https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > -------------- next part --------------<br>> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br>> > Name: 1432 route55 shj.jpg<br>> > Type: image/jpeg<br>> > Size: 147318 bytes<br>> > Desc: 1432 route55 shj.jpg<br>> > Url : http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20130710/949f3c21/attachment.jpg <br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>> > Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> > https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>> Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<br></div> </div>
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