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<DIV><FONT size=4 face="Century Gothic">Ed</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=4>As I interpreted what I read, it was not Grace, who was his
nurse. Apparently he had dalliances with a number of store
employees.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=4>Dwight</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=trams2@comcast.net
href="mailto:trams2@comcast.net">Edward H. Lybarger</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, 31 October, 2013 08:40</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org
href="mailto:pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">'Western PA Trolley
discussion'</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PRCo] Pittsburgh Department
Stores</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: inline">He
had a daughter with one of the girlfriends, who was a store employee.
Don't recall if that was Grace or not; the biography is upstairs and I'm
not.<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From:
pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org
[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org] On Behalf Of Dwight
Long<BR>Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 1:20 PM<BR>To: Western PA Trolley
discussion<BR>Subject: Re: [PRCo] Pittsburgh Department
Stores<BR><BR><BR>Fred<BR><BR>And as the rumour goes, a lot of girl friends as
well.<BR><BR>At any rate Liliane died from lead poisoning not far from
Fallingwater�self inflicted. Some accounts say it was from an overdose of
sleeping pills�accidental. This was 1952. He married Grace two years
later. They were only married for seven months before his death. So it is
Liliane that was a partner in designing and building Fallingwater. She was
also quite active in the Kaufmann�s store.<BR><BR>Dwight<BR><BR>From: Fred
Schneider <BR>Sent: Wednesday, 30 October, 2013 12:39<BR>To: Western PA Trolley
discussion <BR>Subject: Re: [PRCo] Pittsburgh Department Stores<BR>>From what
I could find on line, I think he had two wives. <BR><BR><BR>On Oct 30,
2013, at 8:22 AM, Edward H. Lybarger wrote:<BR><BR>> Edgar Kaufmann's wife
was Liliane; Fallingwater is in Fayette County.<BR>> <BR>> -----Original
Message-----<BR>> From:
pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>
[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org] On Behalf Of
Fred<BR>> Schneider<BR>> Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 8:02 PM<BR>>
To: Western PA Trolley discussion; Dwight Long<BR>> Subject: Re: [PRCo]
Pittsburgh Department Stores<BR>> <BR>> I had a charge card at Kaufmann's
until it became Macys. I went in one<BR>> night and the chap in
men's clothing told me he didn't have time to help me<BR>> . stocking shelves
was more important work than selling clothes to a<BR>> customer.
He told me to "Wait on yourself." I asked for the store<BR>>
manager and forced him to call the head office and cancel my credit
card.<BR>> He said, you can do it on line. I said, "No, you are
going to do it and<BR>> explain to your superiors why I am pissed
off." <BR>> <BR>> Back in 1931, when my mom graduated from
Margaret Morrison College at<BR>> Carnegie Tech., Mr. Kaufmann offered every
girl in her class that didn't<BR>> have employment, a job in his store . a
charitable thing. She worked for<BR>> the next four years for Mr.
Kaufmann. He understood merchandising much<BR>> better than his
successors. His name even said so. Kaufmann is German for<BR>>
salesman. But in deference to the department stores today, they
didn't<BR>> have much choice. The discounted retailers taught us
that price, not value<BR>> was all that really mattered. If you sell
shit cheap enough today, people<BR>> will buy it. <BR>> <BR>>
After I was married I discovered that my mom also had a friend from high<BR>>
school or college whose dad was the caretaker at Fallingwater. It
was only<BR>> after I visited the Edgar and Grace Kaufmann mansion in
Somerset County that<BR>> my mother let the cat out of the bag about Mr.
McConahay (spelling may be<BR>> wrong), and that she occasionally went out to
Fallingwater with Charlotte on<BR>> weekends when Kauffman wasn't
there. I imagine everyone involved is dead<BR>> now . my mother
and the girl friend would both have been born about 1909 and<BR>> the
caretaker would be at least 20 years older. Edgar died in 1955,
his<BR>> wife about 1957 . the caretaker in probably about the same
time. The<BR>> caretaker's daughter lived in Lexington Mass .
probably died in the 1980s or<BR>> 90s like my parents.
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> On Oct 28, 2013, at 9:48 PM, Dwight Long
wrote:<BR>> <BR>>> <BR>>> Fred<BR>>> <BR>>> OK, you
did. But you misspelled Baer. Bear is someone up in
Canada.<BR>>> <BR>>> Kaufmann & Baer came about because of a
schism in the Kaufmann family. In<BR>> turn Gimbels bought the building
at 6th and Smithfield that housed K&B.<BR>>> <BR>>> And now only
Kaufmann a/k/a Macy's is left.<BR>>> <BR>>> Dwight<BR>>> -----
Original Message ----- <BR>>> From: Fred Schneider <BR>>> To:
Western PA Trolley discussion <BR>>> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 8:52
PM<BR>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Pittsburgh Department Stores<BR>>>
<BR>>> <BR>>> I did not write that Kaufman's was at 6th and
Smithfield. I wrote<BR>> Kauffman and Bear. I did
misspell Kaufman. But it was always on the<BR>> northwest corner of 6th
and Smithfield. You want proof:<BR>>> <BR>>> Look at the
this 1929 map. <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>
http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/image-idx?view=entry;cc=maps;<BR>>
entryid=x-29v10p05 <BR>>> <BR>>> Here is a photo that is
more recent.<BR>>> <BR>>>
http://www.flickr.com/photos/army_arch/293068499/<BR>>> <BR>>> The
church is Smithfield United Church of Christ at 620 Smithfield<BR>> Street,
on the north side of Smithfield, across from Gimbels. The
picture<BR>> was taken from Mellon Square. <BR>>>
<BR>>> And it matches the street view of the building in google earth at
the<BR>> same spot today.<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>>
<BR>>> On Oct 28, 2013, at 7:47 PM, Dwight Long wrote:<BR>>>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>> Fred<BR>>>> <BR>>>> Kaufman
& Baer.<BR>>>> <BR>>>> But I don't understand the
reference to Kaufmans being at 6th and<BR>> Smithfield. AFAIK it was
always at Diamond and Smithfield (and extending<BR>> the whole block to
Fifth).<BR>>>> <BR>>>> What am I missing here?<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> I forgot Frank & Seder, another Pgh department
store.<BR>>>> <BR>>>> But the real tragedy was the loss of
Joseph Horne's.<BR>>>> <BR>>>> Dwight<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>>>>
From: Fred Schneider <BR>>>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion
<BR>>>> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 6:56 PM<BR>>>> Subject:
Re: [PRCo] Burning Leaves--and Coal<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>> Long befo. I thought Boggs and Buhl closed about
1950 because my<BR>> mother's brother told a story of how he went to their
going out of business<BR>> sale to buy clothing for his kids . he had moved
up to Cheswick in the huge<BR>> Nov. 1950 storm. The story
concluded with the store forgetting to send him<BR>> the charge account bill
and when he called to ask where it was, all their<BR>> phones were
disconnected. <BR>>>> <BR>>>> But this link claims it
closed as a result of the opening of North Hills<BR>> Mall in 1955 and the
actual closure was in 1960.<BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
http://buhlplanetarium2.tripod.com/bio/boggsbuhl.htm<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> Rosenbaums on Liberty Avenue dawntawn apparently also closed in
1960.<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
http://www.lifeinwesternpa.org/viewDetail.asp?ID=56<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> Gimbel's closed sometime in 1986 or 1987. The
problem with having<BR>> family that was in Pittsburgh back to the time of
the Civil War is someone<BR>> always told you of this or that
connection. In this case, it was an aunt<BR>> of my mom's who
worked for Kauffman and Bear, the firm that had the store at<BR>> 6th and
Smithfield before Gimbel's. <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>
http://departmentstoremuseum.blogspot.com/2010/06/gimbels-pittsburgh-pennsyl<BR>>
vania.html<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimbels<BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
http://www.flickr.com/photos/army_arch/293068499/<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>> On Oct 28,
2013, at 5:54 PM, Dwight Long wrote:<BR>>>> <BR>>>>>
<BR>>>>> Fred<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> If you are
talking about da Burgh, my recollection is that both Boggs &<BR>> Buhls
and Rosenbaum's went under before Gimbels.<BR>>>>>
<BR>>>>> But if you mean Lancaster------------<BR>>>>>
<BR>>>>> Dwight<BR>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
<BR>>>>> From: Fred Schneider <BR>>>>> To: Western PA
Trolley discussion <BR>>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 12:16
PM<BR>>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Burning Leaves--and
Coal<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> Herb, I
am not insulting Adam Gimbel. I am using "cheap" in the<BR>>
English language sense, not the way the American's have adulterated it
to<BR>> mean "crappy" or "no good". It means economical, as in
the "cheap day<BR>> return ticket" in Britain . translated means the bargain
one day round trip<BR>> ticket.<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>>
Gimbels was the cheap (bargain) store but they were not in a position to<BR>>
compete with the likes of WalMart and it this area they were the first<BR>>
department store to fold. If I had to make a comparison, it would be
the<BR>> British Home Store . yes I have a favorite shirt with a BHS
label. That's<BR>> what happens when you vacationed so many times in
Britain. <BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> Sadly,
Gimbels was not only the economical store but locally they had<BR>> some of
the worst help too. He could not stay in business when WalMart
or<BR>> K-Mart had no help and he was paying for doofuses. I
remember one day I<BR>> went into the Gimbels store to buy something for my
wife. A friend who was<BR>> a PennDOT attorney was with
me. He had just returned from a vacation in<BR>>
Japan. I could not get any of the sales girls to wait on
me. They were<BR>> all having a hen party. So I lead Gareth
over until we were within hearing<BR>> range of the goofing off sales clerks,
and then looked at him and said, "Is<BR>> it true what you told me . that in
Japan the sales clerks actually are hired<BR>> to wait on the
customers?" He played it to the hilt and those girls went<BR>>
balistic. How dare you insult them by expecting them to
work. They told<BR>> us off at full volume. And
naturally, we went to another store in the<BR>> mall. I think I
saw some other customers evacuating Adam Gimbel's store.<BR>>
<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> I think there were some other problems
too. Each region operated<BR>> independently. My
charge card for Gimbels in Lancaster was only good in<BR>> the Philadelphia
region stores. It was not valid in Pittsburgh or Chicago.<BR>> It
might get immediate clearance for a temporary card there but I had to<BR>>
apply there if I wanted credit. <BR>>>>>
<BR>>>>> Of course, doesn't matter. They are
gone.<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> Saks? No such thing
here. Nearest is in King of Prussia. And I<BR>>
never heard of a Barneys.. New York store isn't it?
<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> Lancaster County, Pa., was an
area that thrived through the 1980s and<BR>> then crashed. For
many years we had lower wage rates than the national<BR>> average, which
means it isn't the place people who want really high wages<BR>> come but it
might be where a corporation wants to come to build a factory.<BR>> All
through the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, one company after another came here to<BR>>
exploit the cheap labor and the "Amish work ethic." The result was
a<BR>> doubling of the population from 1950 to 2000. But when you
stress the local<BR>> economy and push the unemployment rate down to half the
national<BR>> unemployment rate (it was actually as low here as 1.4 percent
in the summer<BR>> of 1964), that puts extreme pressure on wages.
They rose. Unions become<BR>> popular. So popular that one
by one the factories close and the<BR>> corporations decide we don't don't
need this shit. This was a major<BR>> garment manufacturing
center . all those plants closed. Roughly 10,000<BR>> shoe, garment and
textile jobs vanished. Those jobs went first to Mexico<BR>> under
the North American Free Trade Agreement and then to China and<BR>> southeast
Asia. A lot of recreational vehicle plants were built here
in<BR>> the 1980s . we decided fuel is too expensive to tow those trailers so
those<BR>> plant closed. Armstrong once employed several thousand
people here making<BR>> linoleum and other resilient floor coverings .. they
still do it but in<BR>> right-to-work states and in new plants on one
floor. In the 1960s RCA had<BR>> about 3000 people building color TV
sets here and in Wilkes-Barre; then<BR>> they were introduced to
Sony. Hamilton Watch used to employ almost 2000<BR>> people
making watches . no one wants quality watches . the last remnant of<BR>> the
company was sold to a Swiss firm . they're "out of here" and the<BR>>
building is an apartment now. We still have manufacturing but its
about<BR>> half the number of workers we had in that sector in
1970. We now have<BR>> unemployment over 6% and routine
shootings and burglaries as a means of<BR>> supporting each other . it's
called income transfer. We no longer have<BR>> any upper
end stores. We don't have as many upper income people
today.<BR>> I guess they're in Dallas today. But at my age, no
reason to move. <BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> The sad thing
about the crash here, Herb, was unlike Pittsburgh, it<BR>> affected a young
population to begin with. When steel went down in 1982 in<BR>>
Pittsburgh, it wasn't something new. They already had 20 years of
on-again,<BR>> off-again problems with the mills. Allegheny County's
population was<BR>> relatively stable after 1930 in the 1.4 to 1.6 million
range. It actually<BR>> began dropping from 1.629 million in 1960
to 1.450 million before the big<BR>> collapse of steel in 1982 . the kids
were already leaving home and going<BR>> where the jobs were. You
cannot have really high unemployment when people<BR>> go directly from
working to pensions . they are out of the labor force.<BR>>>>>
<BR>>>>> But Lancaster was still growing rapidly when our crash
came. We had<BR>> 212,000 in 1940 and 423,000 in 1990 when things
began to soften, 471,000 in<BR>> 2000 and 519,000 in 2010. Part
of the anomaly of a tapering economy along<BR>> with growth is that we have
also found ourselves within commuting distance<BR>> of Philadelphia's
suburban job market and now the same for the northeastern<BR>> suburbs of
Baltimore. For a while, until the state began to decide they<BR>>
didn't want workers, the northwestern part of this county was also<BR>>
attractive for people working in the state capital . only 20 minutes away
on<BR>> the train. Trouble is, Herb, if that guy gets laid off in
Philadelphia he<BR>> is still among the 6.5% unemployed in
Lancaster. And, as you can see from<BR>> those numbers, we have
over 50,000 homes built in the last 40 years .. not<BR>> the same as
someone who built a house in Pittsburgh in 1935. When you
have<BR>> a couple who built a house in 1990 and the area crashes and they
still have<BR>> a mortgage, you have problems.
<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> On Oct 27, 2013, at 10:28 AM, Herb
Brannon wrote:<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>>> Don't let Adam
Gimble hear you say that. Oh yes, I<BR>>
forgot.............all<BR>>>>>> you Lancaster people only shop at
Barneys and Saks.<BR>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 27, 2013 at 9:46 AM, Fred Schneider<BR>>
<fwschneider@comcast.net>wrote:<BR>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>> Ah yes, Gimbels . the cheap department
store. But like so many<BR>> others<BR>>>>>>>
driven out of business by K-Mart, WalMart, Target and so forth, it
no<BR>>>>>>> longer exists.<BR>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>> My first introduction to any form of electronic
mail was a captive<BR>>>>>>> in-house system that the state
operated for its own departmental<BR>>>>>>> operations. Today
it's own system has been scrapped and it is using<BR>>
the<BR>>>>>>> internet. But it was a fantastic
system that allowed us to get stuff<BR>> out<BR>>>>>>> of
Harrisburg the same day they got it . of course transmission
was<BR>>>>>>> excruciatingly slow.<BR>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>> The earliest memory I have of any such system,
however rudimentary,<BR>> was<BR>>>>>>> the state Job Bank
which would have been in the very early 1970s.<BR>> All
job<BR>>>>>>> orders, referral and placement transactions were
scanned with a slow<BR>> speed<BR>>>>>>> rotary drum
scanner about the same number of lines as an old<BR>>
television<BR>>>>>>> screen and then sent over telephone lines
to Harrisburg to be be<BR>> processed<BR>>>>>>> into the
main frame computer.<BR>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>>
Hard to believe that, in the space of forty years, we have gone from<BR>>
that<BR>>>>>>> to being able to send letters and photographs
and drawings back and<BR>> forth<BR>>>>>>> to buddies
anywhere in the world in real time. We can all remember<BR>> when
a<BR>>>>>>> letter to Europe took a week to be delivered and
now, if we are both<BR>> awake<BR>>>>>>> and near our
computers at the same time, I can pass a half dozen<BR>>
e-mails<BR>>>>>>> back and forth to the same person in Vienna
or Berlin or rural eastern<BR>>>>>>> England .. as we watch
the postal service go bankrupt.<BR>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>> On Oct 26, 2013, at
8:13 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:<BR>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>> John,<BR>>>>>>>> There was
a "kinda" Internet back in the early/mid 1980s. It was<BR>>
nothing<BR>>>>>>>> like we're using today,
however.<BR>>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>>> I had
just bought a brand new Commodore 64 complete system at Gimbles<BR>>
in<BR>>>>>>>> downtown Pittsburgh. Interesting that both
Gimbles and the Commodore<BR>> 64<BR>>>>>>>> have gone
to the museum of memories. My C64 was very "cutting edge"<BR>>
for<BR>>>>>>>> 1983/84 inasmuch as I had the keyboard,
monitor ( nothing more than a<BR>>>>>>>> television set
with only green and black color), dataset (for<BR>>
programs<BR>>>>>>> and<BR>>>>>>>> storage
on cassette tape), two (mind you, two !) floppy disk drives<BR>> (so
I<BR>>>>>>>> didn't have to switch between program and
data-storage disks on only<BR>> one<BR>>>>>>>> disk
drive), and a dot-matrix printer with these little DIP switches<BR>>
in<BR>>>>>>> the<BR>>>>>>>> back which
could be set to produce ten different print styles, and
a<BR>>>>>>> little<BR>>>>>>>> rectangle
shaped box which plugged into the back of the keyboard and<BR>>
was<BR>>>>>>>> called a "modem". For what I paid for all
that stuff I could have<BR>> used<BR>>>>>>>
that<BR>>>>>>>> same dollar amount today and purchased
three or four complete<BR>> computer<BR>>>>>>>>
set-ups.<BR>>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>>>
Anyway, I wanted to use this investment to its fullest so I signed up<BR>>
for<BR>>>>>>>> this service which was advertised as
"connecting computers and their<BR>>>>>>>
users"<BR>>>>>>>> for the purpose of transmitting
"mail-like electronic messages" and<BR>>>>>>>> providing
"interest groups" on varying subject matter. It was, for<BR>>
all<BR>>>>>>>> purposes, the beginning of the Internet. The
"Mail-like electronic<BR>>>>>>>
message"<BR>>>>>>>> service was called MCI Mail. You could
send messages to other users<BR>> who<BR>>>>>>>> were on
this system and you could also sent messages to people not on<BR>>
the<BR>>>>>>>> service via this MCI Mail in selected US
cities. For people not<BR>> hooked<BR>>>>>>>
into<BR>>>>>>>> the "network" via computer, the messages
went to a MCI facility<BR>> (located<BR>>>>>>>
in<BR>>>>>>>> several major cities, Pittsburgh included)
and were then delivered by<BR>> a<BR>>>>>>>> messenger
to any address in downtown Pittsburgh or the downtown area<BR>>
of<BR>>>>>>> the<BR>>>>>>>> other cities
in the network. The drawbacks were many, including
the<BR>>>>>>>> messenger service, the fact that only the
downtown areas of several<BR>> major<BR>>>>>>>> cities
could be accessed via this service, and the cost. This
service<BR>>>>>>> last<BR>>>>>>>> only a
few months as more and more people and businesses began
using<BR>>>>>>>> computers and became
connected.<BR>>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>>>
There were no photographs on this system, only plain text. However,<BR>>
it<BR>>>>>>> was<BR>>>>>>>> the start of
what we have today and I'm happy that I was a part of<BR>>
it.<BR>>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 11:00 PM, John
Swindler<BR>> <j_swindler@hotmail.com<BR>>>>>>>>
wrote:<BR>>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>>>> In
1968/9 Point Park College had a relatively new IBM System
360<BR>>>>>>> computer.<BR>>>>>>>>> It
was a stand alone unit about 5-6 feet high. An instructor said<BR>>
that<BR>>>>>>>>> the CPU took up less than a foot of
this height - the rest was empty<BR>>>>>>>
space.<BR>>>>>>>>> This was to fool purchasing agents
who expected computers to be big<BR>> and<BR>>>>>>>>>
bulky. Miniaturization was already
occurring.<BR>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>> Doubt if you were thinking of using the
internet in early 1980s,<BR>> Fred.<BR>>>>>>>>>
Mid-1990s, perhaps, but not 1980s.<BR>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>> A problem in the 1980s was the
proliferation of computer<BR>> manufacturers<BR>>>>>>>
and<BR>>>>>>>>> non-compatible software. Also
speed even when there was a program<BR>>
that<BR>>>>>>>>> could convert from one language to
another. We're talking 8086 and<BR>>
286<BR>>>>>>>>> chips. Today it seems that
instantaneous just doesn't seem fast<BR>>>>>>> enough.
I<BR>>>>>>>>> remember a LOTUS 1-2-3 spreadsheet.
Enter a bunch of data, tell it<BR>> to<BR>>>>>>>>>
compute, then go for a cup of coffee. It was used to produce
the<BR>>>>>>>>> Pennsylvania Mass Transit Statistical
Report.<BR>>>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>>>>>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 02:04:10 +0000<BR>>>>>>>>>>
From: bobrathke@comcast.net<BR>>>>>>>>>> To:
pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>>>>>>
Subject: Re: [PRCo] Burning Leaves--and
Coal<BR>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>> Most of us from the 1970's have these
computer stories, Fred. I<BR>> used<BR>>>>>>>
my<BR>>>>>>>>> first word processor in 1979 - a Digital
computer the size of a<BR>> small<BR>>>>>>>>>
refrigerator with a 9" monochrome screen, plus a noisy
daisy-wheel<BR>>>>>>>
impact<BR>>>>>>>>> printer. Hardly desktop, and no
hard drive - the word processing<BR>>>>>>>
program<BR>>>>>>>>> ran from an 8" floppy, and documents
were stored on another 8"<BR>> floppy.<BR>>>>>>>>>
Those floppies had the massive capacity of 840KB each. That
Digital<BR>>>>>>>>> computer cost $12,000, but it wasn't
linked to anything, so in 1980<BR>> the<BR>>>>>>>>>
company bought a modem to connect to another computer. That modem<BR>>
cost<BR>>>>>>> $750.<BR>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>
Bob.<BR>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message
-----<BR>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>> From: "Fred Schneider"
<fwschneider@comcast.net><BR>>>>>>>>>> To:
"Western PA Trolley discussion" <<BR>>>>>>>>>
pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org><BR>>>>>>>>>>
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 7:48:16
PM<BR>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Burning
Leaves--and Coal<BR>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>
Bob,<BR>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>> I can recall when the state had a
mammoth computer room in the L&I<BR>>>>>>>>>
Building in Harrisburg to handle all Employment Service data<BR>>
reporting<BR>>>>>>> and<BR>>>>>>>>>
all the Unemployment Claims .. huge place on a raised floor
to<BR>>>>>>> accommodate<BR>>>>>>>>>
both the cabling and the air-conditing ducts to keep the main
frame<BR>>>>>>>>> computers
cool.<BR>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>> Today I know what is sitting on my desk
. each of them .. has far<BR>> more<BR>>>>>>>>> power
than what put the man on the moon back in the 1960s.<BR>>
Probably<BR>>>>>>> the<BR>>>>>>>>>
computers in most of our cars have more ooomph than that computer<BR>>
that<BR>>>>>>> put<BR>>>>>>>>>
Armstrong on the moon.<BR>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>> In the early 1980s, I was the head of
an occupational information<BR>>>>>>>>> program in
Pennsylvania to provide data to schools and anyone else<BR>>
who<BR>>>>>>>>> might need it . mostly for counseling
kids. The federal government<BR>>>>>>>
wanted<BR>>>>>>>>> it all done on main frame
computers. In Pennsylvania, we were<BR>>
thinking<BR>>>>>>>>> about doing it on desk top
computers and passing out the information<BR>>
on<BR>>>>>>>>> floppy disks or linking them by this new
internet to desk tops in<BR>>>>>>>>>
Harrisburg. Washington told me that if we tried to do it that
way,<BR>> we<BR>>>>>>>>> would not be given any grant
money. Obviously someone who was<BR>>
making<BR>>>>>>> main<BR>>>>>>>>>
frame computers had lobbied heavily to have things done his
way.<BR>>>>>>> Funny<BR>>>>>>>>> thing
about that . two years later, my successor told me that I had<BR>>
been<BR>>>>>>>>> right and we're doing it your
way.<BR>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>> It's not your grandmother's
Buick..<BR>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>
Fred<BR>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 25, 2013, at 7:14 PM, Bob Rathke
wrote:<BR>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>> In 1965 I wrote and produced a
slide presentation for training<BR>> U.S.<BR>>>>>>>>>
Steel's customer service people in their offices around the U.S. I<BR>>
made<BR>>>>>>>>> several visits to the Muriel St.
facility to get background<BR>> information<BR>>>>>>>
on<BR>>>>>>>>> U.S. Steel's computer capabilities.
I remember being impressed with<BR>> the<BR>>>>>>>>>
building's climate controlled environment and the raised floors
to<BR>>>>>>>>> accomodate under-floor computer
cables.<BR>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>> Today, an i-pad is probably more
powerful that the computer system<BR>> in<BR>>>>>>>>>
that building in 1965.<BR>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>
Bob<BR>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message
-----<BR>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Derrick Brashear"
<shadow@dementix.org><BR>>>>>>>>>>> To:
"Western PA Trolley discussion" <<BR>>>>>>>>>
pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org><BR>>>>>>>>>>>
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 5:05:40
PM<BR>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Burning
Leaves--and Coal<BR>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>> it's a computer
center<BR>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 12:46 AM,
Bob Rathke<BR>>
<bobrathke@comcast.net><BR>>>>>>>>>
wrote:<BR>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>> In the 1970's, USS's Muriel St.
facility was the Direct Mail<BR>> Center
-<BR>>>>>>>>>>>> computer operations,
literature storage and fulfillment. If
it's<BR>>>>>>>>>
still<BR>>>>>>>>>>>> there, I'm not sure about
its current function.<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message
-----<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Herb Brannon"
<hrbran@cavtel.net><BR>>>>>>>>>>>> To:
"Western PA Trolley discussion"
<<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org><BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 10:16:14
PM<BR>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Burning
Leaves--and Coal<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems that back in the "big
steel" days the main producers of<BR>>>>>>>>> smoke
and<BR>>>>>>>>>>>> fire were the USS Homestead
Works and just about everything J & L<BR>>
had<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
operating.<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>> USS also has some type of
operation on Muriel Street in<BR>>
Southside.<BR>>>>>>>>> I'm
not<BR>>>>>>>>>>>> sure what they do there,
however. USS also has a research center<BR>>
in<BR>>>>>>>>>>>> Homestead still operating.
Even with all these operating<BR>>
facilities,<BR>>>>>>>>>
the<BR>>>>>>>>>>>> number of people employed by
USS comes nowhere near what those<BR>>>>>>>>>
facilities<BR>>>>>>>>>>>> used to
employ.<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 10:53
PM, Dwight Long <<BR>>>>>>>
dwightlong@verizon.net<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
wrote:<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Herb<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> But Irvin works is not a
primary producer but rather a rolling<BR>>
mill<BR>>>>>>>>>
(as<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> you said) and so would
not generate the "fire and brimstone"<BR>>
that<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> characterized a primary
steel producer.<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> I went by Clairton on a
train in July and did not notice any<BR>> smoke<BR>>>>>>>
at<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
all,<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> just some condensed
water vapor. I think the coking processes<BR>>
are<BR>>>>>>>
so<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> contained these days that
very little emissions emanate from it.<BR>>>>>>>>>
Besides<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> environmental
concerns, the steelmakers have learned that
the<BR>>>>>>>>>
effluents<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the coke
making process are valuable by products that need<BR>>
to<BR>>>>>>>
be<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> trapped and sold.
The days of the beehive coke ovens that<BR>>
spewed<BR>>>>>>>>> all
the<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> byproducts into the
atmosphere are long gone.<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Dwight<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original
Message -----<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Herb
Brannon<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Western PA
Trolley discussion<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent:
Monday, October 21, 2013 10:41
PM<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo]
Burning Leaves--and Coal<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bob
R,<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> It still had that "orange
glow" when I first moved here in 1972.<BR>>>>>>>>>
Plus,<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
when<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> atmospheric conditions
were right, it smelled like fire &<BR>>>>>>>>>
brimstone,<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> everywhere. Even
today, on humid days, I still smell the "fire<BR>>
&<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> brimstone" coming from
the Irvin Works just over the hill (on<BR>>
Camp<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hollow<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rd) to the south-east
of my place.<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> Contrary to popular opinion
steel is not dead in Pittsburgh.
The<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
Clairton<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> Works still
produces coke as it always did, the Edgar
Thompson<BR>>>>>>>>>
Works<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
makes<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> primary steel, the
Irvin Works produces rolled steel and the<BR>>>>>>>>>
relatively<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
new<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mckeesport Tubular Works
(old National Works, now reopened)<BR>>
makes<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
tubular<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> products for the
Marcellus Shale drilling industry. So the<BR>>
sulphur<BR>>>>>>>>>
and<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
fire<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> & brimstone can
still be smelled on humid days and the orange<BR>>
glow<BR>>>>>>>>>
is<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
still<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> available in Braddock
and Clairton.<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at
2:46 PM, Bob Rathke<BR>>
<bobrathke@comcast.net<BR>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
wrote:<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Driving south from
Zelienople at night in the 1950's you didn't<BR>>>>>>>>>
need<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
a<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> compass to locate
Pittsburgh - the sky there always had an<BR>>
orange<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
glow.<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message
-----<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "John Swindler"
<j_swindler@hotmail.com><BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
To: "Western PA Trolley discussion"
<<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org><BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 10:16:09
AM<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo]
Burning Leaves--and Coal<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Was chatting with some
PTM visitors yesterday, and among
the<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
"Pittsburg<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smells"
mentioned was J&L sulfur smell upon exiting Squirrel<BR>>
Hill<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Tunnels<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and heading
downgrade to Brady St. exit. They were old
enough<BR>>>>>>>>>
to<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
remember<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> air pollution
from late 1940s - (before my
time).<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From:
dwightlong@verizon.net<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
To:
pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 11:04:35
-0400<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re:
[PRCo] Burning Leaves--and
Coal<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Herb<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In Beaver burning
next to the curb was OK on concrete streets<BR>>>>>>>>>
(we<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
lived<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on one) or brick
ones (still several left in the 50s) but not<BR>>
on<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
asphalt<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nor tarred
ones!<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tar? When I
was in first or second grade I came home
from<BR>>>>>>>>>
school<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
for<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lunch. On the
way back to school the alley that I used as
a<BR>>>>>>>>>
shortcut<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
was<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being freshly
tarred. I followed the tar dispensing
truck,<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
fascinated.<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I got
to school I was sent home immediately. I
looked<BR>>>>>>>>> like
the<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proverbial
tarbaby. Lots of turpentine and stiff
scrubbing<BR>>>>>>>>>
later,<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
and<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
a<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new suit of clothes, I
returned and was
admitted.<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And we still had
plenty of coal furnaces in our town back<BR>>
then,<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
although<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our house used
gas. I well recall the smell of the coal<BR>>
burning<BR>>>>>>>>>
on<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
cold<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> winter days whilst
delivering the Pittsburgh Press to my paper<BR>>>>>>>>>
route<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> customers.
The last time I encountered that smell was just a<BR>>
few<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> years
ago<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in a suburb of
Budapest while fotting the trams there.
Brought<BR>>>>>>>>>
back<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
many<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
memories!<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Dwight<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Herb
Brannon<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent:
Monday, 21 October, 2013
10:48<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Western PA
Trolley discussion<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Subject: Re: [PRCo] Burning
Leaves<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I was a
child, in Akron, the common practice was to
burn<BR>>>>>>>>>
the<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
leaves<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the street
but along the curb stones. Sometimes the piles<BR>>
of<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
leaves<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
were<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so large that
the fires would become too large and would<BR>>>>>>>>>
spread to<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
the<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treelawn. Then
the fire department would be called to put
out<BR>>>>>>>>>
the<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
fires.<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made for an
exciting day or evening. Ranking right up
there<BR>>>>>>>>>
with<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
the<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
smell<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of burning
leaves are also the smell of coal smoke and
the<BR>>>>>>>>> smell
of<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
fresh<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
tar.............three of the "little joys of life" now gone
by<BR>>>>>>>>>
the<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
wayside.<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 21,
2013 at 10:33 AM, Dwight Long
<<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
dwightlong@verizon.net<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
wrote:<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Herb<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can remember
back in the 50s coming back to Beaver from<BR>>>>>>>>>
auto<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> trips
to<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the East that
involved the Pa Turnpike-we would use
the<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
Warrendale<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exit
and<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the back
roads to Beaver. Coming down into the
(Beaver)<BR>>>>>>>>>
valley<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> off
the<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hill the
whole floor of the valley would be engulfed in
leaf<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
smoke.<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unhealthy, they
say, but it sure did convey the impression<BR>>>>>>>>>
that<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Autumn<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
was<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> upon
us!<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Dwight<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Herb
Brannon<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent:
Sunday, 20 October, 2013
10:36<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To:
Western PA Trolley
discussion<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Subject: Re: [PRCo] Phil asked about
music<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You
mentioned something I really miss.............the
smell<BR>>>>>>>>>
of<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
burning<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leaves
in October.<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 20,
2013 at 8:37 AM, DF Cramer
<<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
alto_trombone@hotmail.com<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
wrote:<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, what
have I been up to? The beginning of the month
I<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
performed<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Copland, Brahms, & Dvorak with the Butler
County<BR>>>>>>>>>
Symphony,our<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
(my<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
wife<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plays
cello) 28th season with the ensemble. I am back
at<BR>>>>>>>>>
IUP<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
and<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
delivered<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
two arrangements of French Noels from the Baroque period
to<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> begin
the<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> semester
and last week conducted a first reading of my
"The<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Eternal<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Flame",<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
commemorative piece for double trombone choir
and<BR>>>>>>>>> narrator
I<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
wrote<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
to<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mark the
50th anniversary of the Kennedy
assassination.<BR>>>>>>>>> All
of<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
that<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
will<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
be<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performed
on November 19 at the university. Next week
I<BR>>>>>>>>>
perform<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
with<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
IUP<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brass
& organ faculty at Zion Lutheran in Indiana
for<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
Reformation<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sunday<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
the following week we are doing Charlie Chaplin's
"City<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Lights"<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
in<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Butler.
Chaplin created the musical score for this
silent<BR>>>>>>>>>
film<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
we<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
will<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
showing the film as we perform. (Side note: if you
want<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
tickets<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let
me<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know as
soon as possible--I usually get 4 free
ones)<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Other
than that, I spent quality time with Ed at
the<BR>>>>>>>>>
Alle-Kiski<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Historical<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Society, led a new operator training class at PTM,
printed<BR>>>>>>>>>
and<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
stuffed<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
ballots for PTM, and am going to the opera today to
see<BR>>>>>>>>>
Aida<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(football<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
fan<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
alert--Franco Harris is leading the Grand March in
the<BR>>>>>>>>>
opera<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
today)<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
spend lots of time practicing and cleaning up leaves.
I<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
mulch<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some
and<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> burn
others---yes we are still permitted to burn
here.<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you
missed it--I also performed at the PTM 50th<BR>>>>>>>>>
Anniversary<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
luncheon.<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
See the most recent issue of PTM Trolley Fare,
Fred<BR>>>>>>>>>
Schneider<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
took<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
some<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great
images.<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Dennis F.
Cramer<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://home.windstream.net/dfc1/<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date:
Sat, 19 Oct 2013 05:49:49
-0700<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
From:
pcc_sr@yahoo.com<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
To:
pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Subject: Re: [PRCo] still having
issues<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Stereo-vision isn't it Mr.Cramer! Soapbox
opportunity;<BR>>>>>>>>>
make<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
the<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
most<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
of<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
it!<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You
have not recently mentioned anything about
your<BR>>>>>>>>>
concert<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
or<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
music<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
engagements.<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I find them fascinating. Music is not at all
unlike<BR>>>>>>>>>
laughter<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
is<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
it;<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both
speak a universal
language.<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes; BB
are the last posts I have seen. There was
not<BR>>>>>>>>>
much<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
of<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
anything<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
before your BB posts for several weeks. You mentioned
a<BR>>>>>>>>>
book<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
in<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
relation<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
this; please tell
more.<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Phil<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
--------------------------------------------<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
On Sat, 10/19/13, DF Cramer
<alto_trombone@hotmail.com><BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
wrote:<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Subject: [PRCo] still having
issues<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
To: "pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org"
<<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org><BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Date: Saturday, October 19, 2013, 3:52
AM<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
seemed very interesting that
after<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
posted on the list, several emails came through.
I<BR>>>>>>>>>
assume<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
people<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
were<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
responding with reply all. I have received no posts
from<BR>>>>>>>>>
the<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
list<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
other<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
those dealing with Billy
Baxter.<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dennis
F.
Cramer<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://home.windstream.net/dfc1/<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing
list<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> <BR>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
-------------- next part
--------------<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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scrubbed...<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>> <BR>>
http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/201310<BR>>
20/9fb2601a/attachment.html<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing
list<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> <BR>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
--<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb
Brannon<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *In
Pittsburgh...*<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
*......the Greatest City In The
U.S.*<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's Go
Pens<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's Go
Steelers<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------
next part
--------------<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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scrubbed...<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/201310<BR>>
20/d92cc5ec/attachment.html<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing
list<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------
next part
--------------<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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scrubbed...<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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<BR>>>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>> <BR>>
http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/201310<BR>>
21/0e66d86f/attachment.html<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing
list<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
--<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb
Brannon<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *In
Pittsburgh...*<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
*......the Greatest City In The
U.S.*<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's Go
Pens<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's Go
Steelers<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------- next
part --------------<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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scrubbed...<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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21/d430bad4/attachment.html<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing
list<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------- next
part --------------<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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scrubbed...<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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21/f38f69c0/attachment.html<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing
list<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------- next
part --------------<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An
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scrubbed...<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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21/c545651e/attachment.html<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing
list<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------- next
part --------------<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An
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scrubbed...<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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21/ef4874f2/attachment.html<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing
list<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
--<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb
Brannon<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> *In
Pittsburgh...*<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> *......the
Greatest City In The U.S.*<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Let's Go Pens<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's Go
Steelers<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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attachment was scrubbed...<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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21/4b939712/attachment.html<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing
list<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing
list<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
--<BR>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb
Brannon<BR>>>>>>>>>>>> *In
Pittsburgh...*<BR>>>>>>>>>>>> *......the
Greatest City In The U.S.*<BR>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's
Go Pens<BR>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's Go
Steelers<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
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_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
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Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>
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Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>>>>>>>>>>
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Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>>>>>>>>>>
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https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>>>>>>>
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_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>>>>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>>>>>>>
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_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>>>>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>>>>>>
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_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>>>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>>>
--<BR>>>>>>>> Herb Brannon<BR>>>>>>>>
*In Pittsburgh...*<BR>>>>>>>> *......the Greatest City In
The U.S.*<BR>>>>>>>> Let's Go
Pens<BR>>>>>>>> Let's Go
Steelers<BR>>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>>>
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_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>> <BR>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>> -- <BR>>>>>> Herb
Brannon<BR>>>>>> *In Pittsburgh...*<BR>>>>>>
*......the Greatest City In The U.S.*<BR>>>>>> Let's Go
Pens<BR>>>>>> Let's Go Steelers<BR>>>>>>
<BR>>>>>> <BR>>>>>> <BR>>>>>>
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Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>>
<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> <BR>>>>>
<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>>
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Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>> _______________________________________________<BR>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>
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Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>
<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>> Pittsburgh-railways
mailing list<BR>>> Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>
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mailing list<BR>>> Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
_______________________________________________<BR>> Pittsburgh-railways
mailing list<BR>> Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
_______________________________________________<BR>> Pittsburgh-railways
mailing list<BR>> Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Pittsburgh-railways
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list<BR>Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR><BR><BR><BR>--------------
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<BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Pittsburgh-railways
mailing
list<BR>Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Pittsburgh-railways
mailing
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