<html>
<head>
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 12pt;
font-family:Calibri
}
--></style></head>
<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'> <BR> <BR>How do you know PAT's numbers do not include non-fare paying, such as in the downtown zone?<BR><br> <BR><div>> From: dwightlong@verizon.net<br>> To: pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 19:18:47 -0500<br>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] First Harmony Car Enters Pittsburg<br>> <br>> <br>> Fred<br>> <br>> In what way is the total distorted?<br>> <br>> Not high enough because non-fare payers are not counted (then would not PAT's numbers have the same lack?)<br>> <br>> Too high because they count non-fare payers? (I would submit they should be counted because a public service is being performed by carting them around)<br>> <br>> Dwight<br>> ----- Original Message ----- <br>> From: Fred Schneider <br>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion <br>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 7:05 PM<br>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] First Harmony Car Enters Pittsburg<br>> <br>> <br>> And so is Buffalo's data distorted by free trips in the central area. I think Baltimore adds in ghosts riding on weekly passes too.<br>> <br>> There are liars on both sides of the boarder.<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> On Nov 12, 2013, at 1:38 PM, TEP wrote:<br>> <br>> > Only certain parts of certain cities are compact. The rest of Canada is <br>> > typical inefficient North American sprawl. You are right transit use is <br>> > much higher in compact areas. Where I live in the inner city I have a <br>> > bus every two minutes at the end of my street. The distant suburbs have <br>> > "policy headway" a bus at least every half hour, eighteen hours a day, <br>> > 365 days a year on all urban main roads.<br>> > <br>> > Your Calgary data is distorted by the large number of "free" trips in <br>> > the central area--mainly midday.<br>> > -------------------------------------<br>> > On 09/11/2013 14:19, Fred Schneider wrote:<br>> >> Ah, but the Canadians live a much more compact live than the people south of you.<br>> >> <br>> >> Up north you don't have this same concept that I'm better than Jose so I must live in a 3,000 square foot house on a 3 acre lot in a gated community. Even in small towns you can have bus service which would be impossible in the USA because people still live in smaller homes lined up along streets. Maybe it comes from the idea that it costs money to heat a 3,000 square foot house so that a 1,000 square foot house using the neighbor's property as a wind break is a better deal.<br>> >> <br>> >> Example, the bus system in your provincial capital hauled 28 million riders last year. That's around 11,000 on a weekday. BARTA in Reading, PA had 3 million. Both cities have around 80,000 population. I remember standing downtown in Victoria BC in the evening rush hour in 2007 … crowds boarding buses at every corner. Unreal by US standards.<br>> >> <br>> >> And you guys want a real jolt? Calgary, Alberta has a population of about 1.1 million. Their total system ridership is about 548,000 fares (considering we need to ride in and out every day, that's one out of every four Calgarians rides mass transit). And 285,000 a day are on light rail trains!!!!!! That is the second highest light rail riding in North America. Yeah … go to Montana … middle of no where … turn right and go up the front range about 150 miles.<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> On Nov 9, 2013, at 2:42 PM, TEP wrote:<br>> >> <br>> >>> On 09/11/2013 09:22, Herb Brannon wrote:<br>> >>>> ...........<br>> >>>> One the cloudy side, why doesn't PATransit try to get money to extend some<br>> >>>> of the Pittsburgh lines? The PAT management doesn't seem too interested in<br>> >>>> running a good transit system. Service levels are no where near what they<br>> >>>> were when I worked at PAT.......<br>> >>>> <br>> >>> Because capital and operating subsidies come from different pockets. PAT<br>> >>> could build all it wants--but have no money to operate any new lines--or<br>> >>> the existing lines for that matter.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> I live in Vancouver. The Urban area is around the same population as<br>> >>> Greater Pittsburgh. Our three rail lines carry half a million passengers<br>> >>> a day. Peak headways down to four and six car trains every ninety<br>> >>> seconds. Service at least every five minutes until 1:15 am. Plus the 5<br>> >>> train peak only commuter rail. Use it or lose it.<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Tom Parkinson<br>> >>> <br>> >>> ADVISORY: The Telus spam filters may block legitimate email<br>> >>> <br>> >>> *Transport****Consulting**Limited *<br>> >>> <br>> >>> Tom Parkinson P.Eng, Vancouver BC Canada 604-733-5430, cell 604-733-5437<br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> <br>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>> >>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>> >>> Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> >>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> <br>> >> _______________________________________________<br>> >> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>> >> Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> >> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<br>> >> <br>> > <br>> > -- <br>> > ADVISORY: The Telus spam filters may block legitimate email<br>> > <br>> > *Transport****Consulting**Limited *<br>> > <br>> > Tom Parkinson P.Eng, Vancouver BC Canada 604-733-5430, cell 604-733-5437<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>> > Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> > https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>> Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> URL: http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20131112/f506b91c/attachment.html <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>> Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<br></div> </div>
</body>
</html>