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<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">Fred</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">Ah yes. That one lasted until the end of
Rt 65, which PAT extended over the outer end of Rt 55 from Munhall Loop after
the Glenwood Bridge was closed to trams. Can't recall how long that
arrangement lasted, but I do know it was in effect in early 1965 when I was
working for The Corporation and was for a while officed in Homestead Works
(RIP).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">Dwight</FONT></DIV>
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style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=fwschneider@comcast.net href="mailto:fwschneider@comcast.net">Fred
Schneider</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org
href="mailto:pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">Western PA Trolley
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 12, 2013 4:42
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PRCo] Philosophy 101</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I'm thinking of the new Rankin Bridge.<BR><BR><BR>On Nov 12,
2013, at 4:24 PM, Dwight Long wrote:<BR><BR>> <BR>> Fred<BR>>
<BR>> I agree with all you say except one little nit pick, and I certainly
agree with your overall theme. I'm glad Christoph insisted I ring up
Bill that year C and I made our tour of the southeast--we had a most enjoyable
breakfast with Bill and that was the last time I ever saw him.<BR>>
<BR>> My nitpick is that PRC Rt 55 did not use the High Level Bridge.
It was supposed to, after Glenwood Bridge closed, at least that was PRC's
plan. PAT had other ideas. The track and wire down Brown's Hill
Road and over the bridge into Homestead were kept intact after Rt. 68 Crumped
at least until the advent of PAT. Don't know when it became inoperable,
but I don't know of any service over it after the 1450 trip the day after Rts.
60 and 68 finished in September 1958.<BR>> <BR>> Dwight<BR>>
----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: Fred Schneider
<BR>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion <BR>> Sent: Tuesday,
November 12, 2013 2:58 PM<BR>> Subject: [PRCo] Philosophy 101<BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> John Swindler wrote: "And just for the record,
mom's cousins are scattered around the world."<BR>> <BR>> And
John, isn't it fun having an excuse to go see them "scattered around the
world?" <BR>> <BR>> There is always a reason to
go see a great friend and then you also do something else while you are
there. In 2010, I received an e-mail from Kevin Keefe at
Kalmbach Publishing one Friday asking if I had any pictures of William D.
Middleton he might use in a biography he was doing on Bill in "Classic
Trains". I e-mailed him back that I would bring what I had to his office
on Monday. <BR>> <BR>> Well, at lunch on Monday a
somewhat bewildered Kevin Keefe asked if I always drive 1,000 miles just to
deliver a pack of slides? I was compelled to explain that the trip was
already planned. I was really driving to the west coast to see two
old buddies, both of whom were not in great health and both of whom died
within a year
Bill Middleton had gone to see his son, daughter-in-law and
grandkids in Seattle and never came home
cancer. Don Duke died
within a year of a heart attack while watching television. Sure, I
also used it as an excuse to visit a cousin in Wisconsin and have breakfast
with a high school classmate in Minneapolis. And it was also an excuse
to look at transit facilities in Minneapolis, Edmonton, Vancouver, Sacramento,
Los Angeles, San Diego and Phoenix. And there is a great Indian
(Punjabi) restaurant in Tempe, Arizona
I've eaten there three times in the
last five years. <BR>>
<BR>> <A
href="http://www.the-dhaba.com/">http://www.the-dhaba.com/</A><BR>>
<BR>> But the real reason for that trip was to see Bill and
Don. Three months later Don was pushing up daisies.
Bill died the next summer. <BR>> <BR>> It's far far
better to make time to see the friends than wish we had after we see the
obituary. <BR>> <BR>> More and more, these trips to
look at new light rail lines are becoming also an excuse to see former high
school classmates and railfans and relatives scattered around the
planet. Frankly, I recommend it. <BR>>
<BR>> (By the way, Rathke, I am alerting people that I am thinking of
heading toward Minneapolis next year when the intercity line reopens.
I've already planned another lunch with the Kalmbach crew.)<BR>>
____________________________________________________<BR>> <BR>>
And John, it only took Cunard 70 years to finally honor Victoria.<BR>>
<BR>> ____________________________________________________<BR>>
<BR>> Yes, Pittsburgh in the 1960s was also a far far different
world. I did get my picture looking down over the Westinghouse
Bridge toward ET showing the orange smoke pouring out of the stacks at
ET. But I never got a picture of the J&L mills on Second
Avenue
always wanted to do that at night and they disappeared before I had
my chance. <BR>> <BR>> My coverage of Pittsburgh
trolleys was based on two axioms
get what I liked and get the routes that
were about to be abandoned. Result, I have a lot of stuff on Perrysville
because that went past my Grandmother's home. I walked Ardmore
Boulevard because I remembered sitting there killing time as a kid when my mom
and sister were in the doctor's office. The interurbans
well I
walked every inch of them from South Hills Junction to Library and Drake
taking pictures simply because they were there. But I missed a
lot. Yes, hoofed 62 because I knew it would go. I also
walked all of 56 for the same reason. But 55 seemed sound so I
ignored it and therefore missed all those great pictures showing US Steel's
Homestead Works, the High Level Bridge, Mesta Machine, and all those great
pictures that would also show US Steel's Second Avenue mill and the dregs of
Glenwood. I also missed all that great stuff to be had in
Wilkinsburg and S'Liberty and Bloomfield and Butler Street because they were
always going to be there. But I should be glad that I had the
chance to ride to Roscoe and Washington on the interurbans instead of
lamenting what I didn't photograph.<BR>> <BR>> By the time PAT
came along and started wiping out route wholesale conditions had changed on
the home front. I was (1) a college kid and (2) married and (3) a papa
and I simply didn't have money and time to blow driving 500 miles to take
pictures of trolleys. It was after I gave up teaching and went to
work with the state that I really got back into the hobby again. By then
it was 1969 and all that was left in Pittsburgh was on Mount Oliver, Carrick
and a few routes out of Tunnel. So what. T. S.
<BR>> <BR>> I may have missed the Liberty Bell Route and Altoona
but still, I rode on Nearsides in Philadelphia and semi-convertibles in
Baltimore and Brilliners in Atlantic City and through the alley in Hodiamont
in St. Louis. Rather than dwell on what we missed, we should
relish what we saw. It was fun riding to Atlantic City behind a K4
on the PRSL and photographing EMD FTs owned by the NYO&W at Maybrook
(that's nothing but an empty field today). And memories of riding
behind steam on the Best and Only down in the Ohio Valley. And
things like Tatra PCCs
brand new
in east Berlin. Actually, in
one vacation, I saw all but one of all the electric railway in East Germany
before reunification
those four wheel Gotha cars were rather
nice. And riding copycat Brill semi-convertibles in Porto was
great
it was in the 1990s and I was thinking 'these things are still running
and in Lancaster we replaced them first with Birneys, then with ACF buses,
then with ACF Brill buses, then with GM old look buses, then with Fageol buses
in the 1970s but here in Porto these suckers are still running with two-man
crews.' We have to enjoy what we saw
look at the flowers
and enjoy them! <BR>> <BR>> And most important of all, keep
connected with the friends.<BR>> <BR>> On Nov 12, 2013, at 12:45
AM, John Swindler wrote:<BR>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> Went
over on the Queen Mary in 1954, and returned on the Queen Elizabeth. Was
only 7 at the time, and memories are almost non-existent. Sort of like
West Penn memories. It's frustrating. I envy those with memories
from their early years.<BR>>> <BR>>> As you know, Cunard used
names ending in 'ia' for their ships. Like Lusitania. When a new
passenger liner was to be named in the mid-1930s, the Cunard chairman met with
King George V to ask permission to name the ship after a famous British
Queen. Before the chairman could say that it would be the kings'
grandmother, 'Victoria', the king replied "my wife would be delighted".
And that's the legend why it was named the Queen Mary, and not the Queen
Victoria. <BR>>> <BR>>> Cunard is now part of the Carnival family
of cruise lines, and still offers trans-Atlantic service. I've seen
one-way prices around $700 between New York and Southampton.<BR>>>
<BR>>> As for boat trains, they still existed in 1970. Took the
"advance" boat train (separate train about ten minutes ahead of regular train)
from Liverpool St. to Harwich for overnight ferry boat to Hook of
Holland. Had seen advertisement posted in the Brighton train
station. Round trip train and ferry boat London to Holland, two nights
in Rotterdam hotel, and three-day pass on the Hague, Rotterdam and Amsterdam
transit plus pass on Dutch Rys. Price was 15 pounds - or around
$40. If it had not been for a summer job driving buses in Chicago, and
Point Park College (to provide a Pittsburgh connection) moving fall semester
to end before Christmas, this European vacation would have been
impossible. But looking back today, it was a far - far different
world. Likewise, Pittsburgh in the 1960s is also a far different
world. <BR>>> <BR>>> And just for the record, mom's cousins
are scattered around the world. <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>>
<BR>>>> From: <A
href="mailto:fwschneider@comcast.net">fwschneider@comcast.net</A><BR>>>>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 22:40:05 -0500<BR>>>> To: <A
href="mailto:pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org</A><BR>>>>
Subject: [PRCo] More of London (2)<BR>>>> <BR>>>> This
is only for those who care. The others may delete it.
<BR>>>> <BR>>>> One knows only who really loves the same
thing he or she does and also who despises the subject. Those who
like it might tell you. Those who violently disagree generally
make sure you know. Those who waver to either side
you sometimes know
while the masses in the middle will never say anything. This
is for those who might care. <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
There are two guys on his list whom I know to be Anglophiles. I
once told Derrick that I had done something so crazy as having dashed off to
London, England, with my wife merely to attend the theater on Saturday
night. Mr. Brashear advised me that he had once done the
same. The other one I know would be John Swindler, whose Mum
followed his Dad home from England at the end of World War II.
John still has cousins in Britain. Dwight Long has been there a
few times. And I've been there so many times (18 at last
count) that when I looked at a travel video of one town two weeks ago, I got
that same feeling we all get when we come home from vacation
the "it's great
to be home" feeling. By the way, I get that I'm home feeling in
many places ranging from where I live to Pittsburgh or Los Angeles or some
English or German or Swiss towns. It comes from
wandering. <BR>>>> <BR>>>> Beside John and
Derrick, some of the rest of you might enjoy some of these videos and the
attached narrative and this is for you.<BR>>>> <BR>>>> My
first visit to Great Britain occurred in August 1959 when I had a one day
escape from an army troop ship docked at Southampton.<BR>>>> Because
I knew from an American railfan friend that London Underground was still
running steam locomotives on the Metropolitan Division northwest of
Rickmansworth, I escaped from the tour and went searching for these 1896
teakettles. Back then the we could ride behind one of the electric
engines in this video from Baker St. out to Rickmansworth and behind steam
beyond. I sniffed soft coal smoke all afternoon. (To put it
into perspective, a few weeks before I had been to the opening of the
Riverside line in Boston.) <BR>>>> <BR>>>> The
original Circle Line tube was opened by the Metropolitan as a steam
underground railway. Can you imagine all that dirt
underground? Well, if you look at the stations today, all the air
vents that allowed the smoke to escape have been bricked up. But early
in 2013 they ran some steam excursions with Metropolitan number 1 and one of
those electric engines (the Sarah Siddons) which I rode behind in 1959
the
electric was doing most of the work.<BR>>>> <BR>>>> But
there were not options when it opened. In 1868 steam was modern.
We would not have successful electric technology for another 22 years and MU
operation for another 30 years. In fact it was extend under steam
multiple times until 1884 and was not electrified until 1905. (See
for history: <A
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_line_(London_Underground">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_line_(London_Underground</A>)<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> And here is the first video
.<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg4GY9aKfRE">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg4GY9aKfRE</A><BR>>>>
<BR>>>> Now the punch line
I was standing at Baker Street the
following year (1960) when a Metropolitan guard came up and started to
chat. When it came time for him to leave, he grabbed me by the arm and
pushed me up into the cab of one of those old electric engines like Sarah
Siddons and I had a free ride out to Rickmansworth and back. Then
I spent the rest of the evening with him chatting in a local pub and trying to
make like I enjoyed warm ale. Turns out I think he was
attracted to how I had mounted two cameras side-by-side to take both slides
and negatives. He had been trained as a photographer in New York City but
could not find job when he returned to London so he wound up working for
London Transport. <BR>>>> <BR>>>> And another
nice flick of the Tube in London. Unlike New York, Chicago, Boston
and Philadelphia, London has had a zone fare system for as long as I've going
over there and that goes back to the pounds, shillings and pence
days. Can you imagine looking at the change in your hand and
telling if its correct
12 pence to the shillings, 20 shillings to the
pound? They also had half pence. (A
quarter pence was called a farthing so that a haypenny was two
farthings.) They actually had some children's tickets on the tube that
ended in half pence back then. It only took a few weeks
before that came naturally but I was 20 then. It probably wouldn't be
that easy at 73. <BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_olfhN3elog">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_olfhN3elog</A><BR>>>>
<BR>>>> In case you are confused by the multiple rails, LT has
separate positive and negative power rails in addition to the two running
rails. I think they have the ability to switch polarity so do not
assume either one is the hot rail. You might have a standard but
if the insulation fails on one, you could easily reverse polarity.
The national railroad network, on the other hand, uses only one power
rail.<BR>>>> <BR>>>> My next thought was to remind people of
what it was like in World War II, when the tubes were used as bomb
shelters. I started looking to see what might have been on
line. Here is a great 1941 educational film on keeping the system
running in war time. You say, 1941 and wartime? Yes, they
were at war long before we were
England and Germany were at war since Sept.,
1939. Much of the equipment in this film was still running
when I first got there in 1959. By the way
you see
buses in the heart of the city. London never had trams in the
heart of the city. They came only to the perimeter.
All the northern tram routes were gone by the time this film was made in
1941. <BR>>>> <BR>>>> <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH2ZC9rbxSw">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH2ZC9rbxSw</A><BR>>>>
<BR>>>> Perhaps the best tram film I ever saw from London was this
commercial film made in the last week of service in 1952. It was
once pulled for copyright infringement and now I found it again buried under
the heading "British Transport Films." Before it gets yanked again,
enjoy, if you will, "The Elephant Never Forgets." It's a reference to an
intersection in the south of London
think Elephant and
Castle. I love the older couple riding the top deck, maybe
because I have fond memories of viewing downtown Glasgow from the top deck of
a tram. And John Krish, the man who photographed this, was
fired for taking it
he was told only to photograph the chairman of London
Transport shaking hands with the last tram driver. He was told not to
make a 10 minute film. <BR>>>> <BR>>>> <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc9gtJndKE4">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc9gtJndKE4</A><BR>>>>
<BR>>>> Unfortunately, there is no easy way to find videos that show
people camped in the underground stations to avoid the Blitzkrieg in 1940 or
1941. We didn't have high speed movie films or digital cameras
then. There are still pictures out there. Can you
imagine thousands upon thousands of people who survived because the slept on
the concrete station platforms underground? There are many films
of the bombing of London on YouTube under keywords like Blitzkrieg or Blitz of
London or Battle of London but nothing that really shows how the transit
system was damaged. (Now, a lot of the items out there are
copyrighted
someone puts it on YouTube illegally and it disappears a few
months later when it is discovered
the good stuff might have been there and
is gone.) <BR>>>> <BR>>>> How many of us even
know today that the song lyrics, "and Jimmy will go to sleep in his own little
room again" referred to all the English kids who were sent to the country or
even to other nations to get away from the bombs during the war?
By the way, the "Forces Sweetheart," Vera Lynn, is still alive at age
96.<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwtW2Lx5Vwc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwtW2Lx5Vwc</A>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>> Southwest of "The City" is a place called
Clapham Junction where two railroads, the one that built Victoria Station and
the one whose home was Waterloo Station crossed. It is still one of
those places where you can commonly photograph two or three or four trains all
moving at the same time. This should give you some idea what I
meant in the previous e-mail that the Underground isn't important south of the
Thames; instead its the national network rail that fills the
void. I've been to both places and Clapham actually
makes Jamaica on the Long Island dull by comparison. <BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjgoL0TryA8">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjgoL0TryA8</A><BR>>>>
<BR>>>> And, as of 2012, there is a second circle line called the
London Overground
sort of like we might have a second Beltway around a
city. The London Overground is made up of national railroad
network lines:<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YqsdXXbwOI">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YqsdXXbwOI</A><BR>>>>
<BR>>>> This link is specifically for John Swindler, who did sail
with his Mum on the Queen Elizabeth (or maybe it was the Queen Mary) to see
Grandmum. It has a great picture of a boat train leaving the dock
at Southampton with a "Battle of Britain" class Pacific up front and the Queen
sitting at anchor. That particular locomotive was erected in
December 1948 and ran until 1967; RMS Queen Mary made its final crossing the
following year. <BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <A
href="http://cruiselinehistory.com/boat-trains-to-southampton-from-cunard-lines-to-the-rms-titanic-and-the-ss-united-states/">http://cruiselinehistory.com/boat-trains-to-southampton-from-cunard-lines-to-the-rms-titanic-and-the-ss-united-states/</A><BR>>>>
<BR>>>> Most of you remember Chicago as a city with almost more
mainline train stations than you could count
Union, Central, LaSalle,
Dearborn, Northwestern, Grand Central. Well, London was the same
kind of place but with even more stations. The railroads were not
unified into British Railways until 1948 and some of them were merged
earlier. But most of the stations remain today.
Paddington was Great Western's station in 1854 and Isambard Kingdom Brunnel's
statue is still prominent there. Euston dates back to 1837 and
served the London and Birmingham Railway originally and eventually the London,
Midland and Scottish. St. Pancras, right next to King's Cross, was
built in 1866 and served trains to the Midlands. Today it also
handles the Eurostar services to Paris and Brussels which circle the city on
new track. King's Cross goes back to 1852 and is home today to the
East Coast mainline to Scotland. Victoria opened in 1860 and
served four companies on the south. Waterloo dates to 1848 for
trains to the southwest. Charing Cross opened in the financial district
in 1864 and allowed trains ending at London Bridge to cross the river into the
City. Liverpool Street in the east handles trains going out
into the Fen country
if you take a boat train to Holland, you use it and it
goes back to 1875. And all these places are still open. And there
are a few minor places like Marylebone. There are five
terminals in about two miles along Euston St / Marylebone Road across the
north side of the city! <BR>>>> <BR>>>> And when
Mr. Swindler and I were first there, the southern ones were mostly third rail
or steam and the northern stations were almost all steam.
Great memories. <BR>>>> <BR>>>> My arrival in
London in 1959 was a Waterloo Station. Here is a stop motion film
of Waterloo Station in the rush hour 40 years ago. What's happened
since then? The traffic has gotten heavier and the old compartmented
stock is gone. You want that last phrase in American
English? British Railways had a lot of rolling stock with ten seat
compartments, each with doors on both sides. It has all been
scrapped due to the inherent hazards of being mugged or robbed or assaulted
(sexually or otherwise) if you wound up in a compartment with the wrong
person.<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPIaG644jsI">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPIaG644jsI</A><BR>>>>
<BR>>>> And a cluster of high definition scenes in King's Cross,
Euston, St. Pancras and Paddington<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnFuaDntIbw">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnFuaDntIbw</A><BR>>>>
<BR>>>> And if anyone has the time waste, here is an hour-long film
of steam in Britain, remastered from 8 mm films taken in the early 1960s
the
time I remember. The last steam engines were delivered in 1958, a
year before I first went there. The last fires were dropped about
eight years later (maybe nine) except for more tourist railroads than you will
anywhere else. Yes, it was a different world from here
vacuum
brakes back then. Most trains were so light that very few engines
had stokers. A fitted freight had brakes on all
cars. They had compartmented carriages (not coaches).
The engines didn't need headlights because, except for one grade crossing, the
entire network was fenced and gated. But the steam engines still sounded
like steam engines.<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXw_cQbr6Do">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXw_cQbr6Do</A><BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
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