<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 9.00.8112.16514">
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">Fred</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">I agree with all you say except one little nit
pick, and I certainly agree with your overall theme. I'm glad Christoph
insisted I ring up Bill that year C and I made our tour of the southeast--we had
a most enjoyable breakfast with Bill and that was the last time I ever saw
him.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">My nitpick is that PRC Rt 55 did not use the
High Level Bridge. It was supposed to, after Glenwood Bridge closed, at
least that was PRC's plan. PAT had other ideas. The track and wire
down Brown's Hill Road and over the bridge into Homestead were kept intact after
Rt. 68 Crumped at least until the advent of PAT. Don't know when it became
inoperable, but I don't know of any service over it after the 1450 trip the day
after Rts. 60 and 68 finished in September 1958.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">Dwight</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=fwschneider@comcast.net href="mailto:fwschneider@comcast.net">Fred
Schneider</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org
href="mailto:pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">Western PA Trolley
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 12, 2013 2:58
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [PRCo] Philosophy 101</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>John Swindler wrote: "And just for the record, mom's
cousins are scattered around the world."<BR><BR>And John, isn't it fun having
an excuse to go see them "scattered around the world?"
<BR><BR>There is always a reason to go see a great friend and then you also do
something else while you are there. In 2010, I received an
e-mail from Kevin Keefe at Kalmbach Publishing one Friday asking if I had any
pictures of William D. Middleton he might use in a biography he was doing on
Bill in "Classic Trains". I e-mailed him back that I would bring what I
had to his office on Monday. <BR><BR>Well, at lunch on Monday a
somewhat bewildered Kevin Keefe asked if I always drive 1,000 miles just to
deliver a pack of slides? I was compelled to explain that the trip was
already planned. I was really driving to the west coast to see two
old buddies, both of whom were not in great health and both of whom died
within a year
Bill Middleton had gone to see his son, daughter-in-law and
grandkids in Seattle and never came home
cancer. Don Duke died
within a year of a heart attack while watching television. Sure, I
also used it as an excuse to visit a cousin in Wisconsin and have breakfast
with a high school classmate in Minneapolis. And it was also an excuse
to look at transit facilities in Minneapolis, Edmonton, Vancouver, Sacramento,
Los Angeles, San Diego and Phoenix. And there is a great Indian
(Punjabi) restaurant in Tempe, Arizona
I've eaten there three times in the
last five years. <BR><BR> <A
href="http://www.the-dhaba.com/">http://www.the-dhaba.com/</A><BR><BR>But the
real reason for that trip was to see Bill and Don. Three months
later Don was pushing up daisies. Bill died the next
summer. <BR><BR>It's far far better to make time to see the
friends than wish we had after we see the obituary. <BR><BR>More
and more, these trips to look at new light rail lines are becoming also an
excuse to see former high school classmates and railfans and relatives
scattered around the planet. Frankly, I recommend it.
<BR><BR>(By the way, Rathke, I am alerting people that I am thinking of
heading toward Minneapolis next year when the intercity line reopens.
I've already planned another lunch with the Kalmbach
crew.)<BR>____________________________________________________<BR><BR>And
John, it only took Cunard 70 years to finally honor
Victoria.<BR><BR>____________________________________________________<BR><BR>Yes,
Pittsburgh in the 1960s was also a far far different world. I did
get my picture looking down over the Westinghouse Bridge toward ET showing the
orange smoke pouring out of the stacks at ET. But I never got a
picture of the J&L mills on Second Avenue
always wanted to do that at
night and they disappeared before I had my chance. <BR><BR>My
coverage of Pittsburgh trolleys was based on two axioms
get what I liked and
get the routes that were about to be abandoned. Result, I have a lot of stuff
on Perrysville because that went past my Grandmother's home. I
walked Ardmore Boulevard because I remembered sitting there killing time as a
kid when my mom and sister were in the doctor's office. The
interurbans
well I walked every inch of them from South Hills Junction to
Library and Drake taking pictures simply because they were there.
But I missed a lot. Yes, hoofed 62 because I knew it would
go. I also walked all of 56 for the same reason. But
55 seemed sound so I ignored it and therefore missed all those great pictures
showing US Steel's Homestead Works, the High Level Bridge, Mesta Machine, and
all those great pictures that would also show US Steel's Second Avenue mill
and the dregs of Glenwood. I also missed all that great stuff to
be had in Wilkinsburg and S'Liberty and Bloomfield and Butler Street because
they were always going to be there. But I should be glad that I
had the chance to ride to Roscoe and Washington on the interurbans instead of
lamenting what I didn't photograph.<BR><BR>By the time PAT came along and
started wiping out route wholesale conditions had changed on the home
front. I was (1) a college kid and (2) married and (3) a papa and I
simply didn't have money and time to blow driving 500 miles to take pictures
of trolleys. It was after I gave up teaching and went to work with
the state that I really got back into the hobby again. By then it was
1969 and all that was left in Pittsburgh was on Mount Oliver, Carrick and a
few routes out of Tunnel. So what. T. S.
<BR><BR>I may have missed the Liberty Bell Route and Altoona but still, I rode
on Nearsides in Philadelphia and semi-convertibles in Baltimore and Brilliners
in Atlantic City and through the alley in Hodiamont in St. Louis.
Rather than dwell on what we missed, we should relish what we saw.
It was fun riding to Atlantic City behind a K4 on the PRSL and photographing
EMD FTs owned by the NYO&W at Maybrook (that's nothing but an empty field
today). And memories of riding behind steam on the Best and Only
down in the Ohio Valley. And things like Tatra PCCs
brand new
in east Berlin. Actually, in one vacation, I saw all but one of
all the electric railway in East Germany before reunification
those four
wheel Gotha cars were rather nice. And riding copycat Brill
semi-convertibles in Porto was great
it was in the 1990s and I was thinking
'these things are still running and in Lancaster we replaced them first with
Birneys, then with ACF buses, then with ACF Brill buses, then with GM old look
buses, then with Fageol buses in the 1970s but here in Porto these suckers are
still running with two-man crews.' We have to enjoy what we
saw
look at the flowers and enjoy them! <BR><BR>And most important of
all, keep connected with the friends.<BR><BR>On Nov 12, 2013, at 12:45 AM,
John Swindler wrote:<BR><BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Went over on the Queen Mary
in 1954, and returned on the Queen Elizabeth. Was only 7 at the time,
and memories are almost non-existent. Sort of like West Penn
memories. It's frustrating. I envy those with memories from their
early years.<BR>> <BR>> As you know, Cunard used names ending in 'ia'
for their ships. Like Lusitania. When a new passenger liner was to
be named in the mid-1930s, the Cunard chairman met with King George V to ask
permission to name the ship after a famous British Queen. Before the
chairman could say that it would be the kings' grandmother, 'Victoria', the
king replied "my wife would be delighted". And that's the legend why it
was named the Queen Mary, and not the Queen Victoria. <BR>> <BR>> Cunard
is now part of the Carnival family of cruise lines, and still offers
trans-Atlantic service. I've seen one-way prices around $700 between New
York and Southampton.<BR>> <BR>> As for boat trains, they still existed
in 1970. Took the "advance" boat train (separate train about ten minutes
ahead of regular train) from Liverpool St. to Harwich for overnight ferry boat
to Hook of Holland. Had seen advertisement posted in the Brighton train
station. Round trip train and ferry boat London to Holland, two nights
in Rotterdam hotel, and three-day pass on the Hague, Rotterdam and Amsterdam
transit plus pass on Dutch Rys. Price was 15 pounds - or around
$40. If it had not been for a summer job driving buses in Chicago, and
Point Park College (to provide a Pittsburgh connection) moving fall semester
to end before Christmas, this European vacation would have been
impossible. But looking back today, it was a far - far different
world. Likewise, Pittsburgh in the 1960s is also a far different
world. <BR>> <BR>> And just for the record, mom's cousins are
scattered around the world. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>>
From: <A
href="mailto:fwschneider@comcast.net">fwschneider@comcast.net</A><BR>>>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 22:40:05 -0500<BR>>> To: <A
href="mailto:pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org</A><BR>>>
Subject: [PRCo] More of London (2)<BR>>> <BR>>> This is only
for those who care. The others may delete it. <BR>>>
<BR>>> One knows only who really loves the same thing he or she does and
also who despises the subject. Those who like it might tell
you. Those who violently disagree generally make sure you
know. Those who waver to either side
you sometimes know while the
masses in the middle will never say anything. This is for
those who might care. <BR>>> <BR>>> There are two guys
on his list whom I know to be Anglophiles. I once told Derrick
that I had done something so crazy as having dashed off to London, England,
with my wife merely to attend the theater on Saturday night. Mr.
Brashear advised me that he had once done the same. The other one
I know would be John Swindler, whose Mum followed his Dad home from England at
the end of World War II. John still has cousins in
Britain. Dwight Long has been there a few times.
And I've been there so many times (18 at last count) that when I looked at a
travel video of one town two weeks ago, I got that same feeling we all get
when we come home from vacation
the "it's great to be home"
feeling. By the way, I get that I'm home feeling in many places
ranging from where I live to Pittsburgh or Los Angeles or some English or
German or Swiss towns. It comes from wandering.
<BR>>> <BR>>> Beside John and Derrick, some of the rest of you
might enjoy some of these videos and the attached narrative and this is for
you.<BR>>> <BR>>> My first visit to Great Britain occurred in
August 1959 when I had a one day escape from an army troop ship docked at
Southampton.<BR>>> Because I knew from an American railfan friend that
London Underground was still running steam locomotives on the Metropolitan
Division northwest of Rickmansworth, I escaped from the tour and went
searching for these 1896 teakettles. Back then the we could ride
behind one of the electric engines in this video from Baker St. out to
Rickmansworth and behind steam beyond. I sniffed soft coal smoke
all afternoon. (To put it into perspective, a few weeks before I had
been to the opening of the Riverside line in Boston.) <BR>>>
<BR>>> The original Circle Line tube was opened by the Metropolitan as a
steam underground railway. Can you imagine all that dirt
underground? Well, if you look at the stations today, all the air
vents that allowed the smoke to escape have been bricked up. But early
in 2013 they ran some steam excursions with Metropolitan number 1 and one of
those electric engines (the Sarah Siddons) which I rode behind in 1959
the
electric was doing most of the work.<BR>>> <BR>>> But there were
not options when it opened. In 1868 steam was modern. We would not
have successful electric technology for another 22 years and MU operation for
another 30 years. In fact it was extend under steam multiple times
until 1884 and was not electrified until 1905. (See for
history: <A
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_line_(London_Underground">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_line_(London_Underground</A>)<BR>>>
<BR>>> And here is the first video
.<BR>>>
<BR>>> <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg4GY9aKfRE">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg4GY9aKfRE</A><BR>>>
<BR>>> Now the punch line
I was standing at Baker Street the following
year (1960) when a Metropolitan guard came up and started to chat. When
it came time for him to leave, he grabbed me by the arm and pushed me up into
the cab of one of those old electric engines like Sarah Siddons and I had a
free ride out to Rickmansworth and back. Then I spent the rest of
the evening with him chatting in a local pub and trying to make like I enjoyed
warm ale. Turns out I think he was attracted to how I had
mounted two cameras side-by-side to take both slides and negatives. He had
been trained as a photographer in New York City but could not find job
when he returned to London so he wound up working for London
Transport. <BR>>> <BR>>> And another nice flick of the
Tube in London. Unlike New York, Chicago, Boston and Philadelphia,
London has had a zone fare system for as long as I've going over there and
that goes back to the pounds, shillings and pence days. Can you
imagine looking at the change in your hand and telling if its correct
12
pence to the shillings, 20 shillings to the pound?
They also had half pence. (A quarter pence was called a farthing
so that a haypenny was two farthings.) They actually had some children's
tickets on the tube that ended in half pence back then. It
only took a few weeks before that came naturally but I was 20 then. It
probably wouldn't be that easy at 73. <BR>>>
<BR>>> <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_olfhN3elog">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_olfhN3elog</A><BR>>>
<BR>>> In case you are confused by the multiple rails, LT has separate
positive and negative power rails in addition to the two running
rails. I think they have the ability to switch polarity so do not
assume either one is the hot rail. You might have a standard but
if the insulation fails on one, you could easily reverse polarity.
The national railroad network, on the other hand, uses only one power
rail.<BR>>> <BR>>> My next thought was to remind people of what it
was like in World War II, when the tubes were used as bomb
shelters. I started looking to see what might have been on
line. Here is a great 1941 educational film on keeping the system
running in war time. You say, 1941 and wartime? Yes, they
were at war long before we were
England and Germany were at war since Sept.,
1939. Much of the equipment in this film was still running
when I first got there in 1959. By the way
you see
buses in the heart of the city. London never had trams in the
heart of the city. They came only to the perimeter.
All the northern tram routes were gone by the time this film was made in
1941. <BR>>> <BR>>> <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH2ZC9rbxSw">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH2ZC9rbxSw</A><BR>>>
<BR>>> Perhaps the best tram film I ever saw from London was this
commercial film made in the last week of service in 1952. It was
once pulled for copyright infringement and now I found it again buried under
the heading "British Transport Films." Before it gets yanked again,
enjoy, if you will, "The Elephant Never Forgets." It's a reference to an
intersection in the south of London
think Elephant and
Castle. I love the older couple riding the top deck, maybe
because I have fond memories of viewing downtown Glasgow from the top deck of
a tram. And John Krish, the man who photographed this, was
fired for taking it
he was told only to photograph the chairman of London
Transport shaking hands with the last tram driver. He was told not to
make a 10 minute film. <BR>>> <BR>>> <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc9gtJndKE4">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc9gtJndKE4</A><BR>>>
<BR>>> Unfortunately, there is no easy way to find videos that show
people camped in the underground stations to avoid the Blitzkrieg in 1940 or
1941. We didn't have high speed movie films or digital cameras
then. There are still pictures out there. Can you
imagine thousands upon thousands of people who survived because the slept on
the concrete station platforms underground? There are many films
of the bombing of London on YouTube under keywords like Blitzkrieg or Blitz of
London or Battle of London but nothing that really shows how the transit
system was damaged. (Now, a lot of the items out there are
copyrighted
someone puts it on YouTube illegally and it disappears a few
months later when it is discovered
the good stuff might have been there and
is gone.) <BR>>> <BR>>> How many of us even know today
that the song lyrics, "and Jimmy will go to sleep in his own little room
again" referred to all the English kids who were sent to the country or even
to other nations to get away from the bombs during the war? By the
way, the "Forces Sweetheart," Vera Lynn, is still alive at age 96.<BR>>>
<BR>>> <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwtW2Lx5Vwc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwtW2Lx5Vwc</A>
<BR>>> <BR>>> Southwest of "The City" is a place called Clapham
Junction where two railroads, the one that built Victoria Station and the one
whose home was Waterloo Station crossed. It is still one of those places
where you can commonly photograph two or three or four trains all moving at
the same time. This should give you some idea what I meant in the
previous e-mail that the Underground isn't important south of the Thames;
instead its the national network rail that fills the
void. I've been to both places and Clapham actually
makes Jamaica on the Long Island dull by comparison. <BR>>>
<BR>>> <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjgoL0TryA8">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjgoL0TryA8</A><BR>>>
<BR>>> And, as of 2012, there is a second circle line called the London
Overground
sort of like we might have a second Beltway around a
city. The London Overground is made up of national railroad
network lines:<BR>>> <BR>>> <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YqsdXXbwOI">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YqsdXXbwOI</A><BR>>>
<BR>>> This link is specifically for John Swindler, who did sail with
his Mum on the Queen Elizabeth (or maybe it was the Queen Mary) to see
Grandmum. It has a great picture of a boat train leaving the dock
at Southampton with a "Battle of Britain" class Pacific up front and the Queen
sitting at anchor. That particular locomotive was erected in
December 1948 and ran until 1967; RMS Queen Mary made its final crossing the
following year. <BR>>> <BR>>>
<A
href="http://cruiselinehistory.com/boat-trains-to-southampton-from-cunard-lines-to-the-rms-titanic-and-the-ss-united-states/">http://cruiselinehistory.com/boat-trains-to-southampton-from-cunard-lines-to-the-rms-titanic-and-the-ss-united-states/</A><BR>>>
<BR>>> Most of you remember Chicago as a city with almost more mainline
train stations than you could count
Union, Central, LaSalle, Dearborn,
Northwestern, Grand Central. Well, London was the same kind of
place but with even more stations. The railroads were not unified
into British Railways until 1948 and some of them were merged
earlier. But most of the stations remain today.
Paddington was Great Western's station in 1854 and Isambard Kingdom Brunnel's
statue is still prominent there. Euston dates back to 1837 and
served the London and Birmingham Railway originally and eventually the London,
Midland and Scottish. St. Pancras, right next to King's Cross, was
built in 1866 and served trains to the Midlands. Today it also
handles the Eurostar services to Paris and Brussels which circle the city on
new track. King's Cross goes back to 1852 and is home today to the
East Coast mainline to Scotland. Victoria opened in 1860 and
served four companies on the south. Waterloo dates to 1848 for
trains to the southwest. Charing Cross opened in the financial district
in 1864 and allowed trains ending at London Bridge to cross the river into the
City. Liverpool Street in the east handles trains going out
into the Fen country
if you take a boat train to Holland, you use it and it
goes back to 1875. And all these places are still open. And there
are a few minor places like Marylebone. There are five
terminals in about two miles along Euston St / Marylebone Road across the
north side of the city! <BR>>> <BR>>> And when Mr.
Swindler and I were first there, the southern ones were mostly third rail or
steam and the northern stations were almost all steam. Great
memories. <BR>>> <BR>>> My arrival in London in 1959
was a Waterloo Station. Here is a stop motion film of Waterloo
Station in the rush hour 40 years ago. What's happened since
then? The traffic has gotten heavier and the old compartmented stock is
gone. You want that last phrase in American English?
British Railways had a lot of rolling stock with ten seat compartments, each
with doors on both sides. It has all been scrapped due to the
inherent hazards of being mugged or robbed or assaulted (sexually or
otherwise) if you wound up in a compartment with the wrong person.<BR>>>
<BR>>> <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPIaG644jsI">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPIaG644jsI</A><BR>>>
<BR>>> And a cluster of high definition scenes in King's Cross, Euston,
St. Pancras and Paddington<BR>>> <BR>>> <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnFuaDntIbw">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnFuaDntIbw</A><BR>>>
<BR>>> And if anyone has the time waste, here is an hour-long film of
steam in Britain, remastered from 8 mm films taken in the early 1960s
the
time I remember. The last steam engines were delivered in 1958, a
year before I first went there. The last fires were dropped about
eight years later (maybe nine) except for more tourist railroads than you will
anywhere else. Yes, it was a different world from here
vacuum
brakes back then. Most trains were so light that very few engines
had stokers. A fitted freight had brakes on all
cars. They had compartmented carriages (not coaches).
The engines didn't need headlights because, except for one grade crossing, the
entire network was fenced and gated. But the steam engines still sounded
like steam engines.<BR>>> <BR>>> <A
href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXw_cQbr6Do">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXw_cQbr6Do</A><BR>>>
<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>>
-------------- next part --------------<BR>>> An HTML attachment was
scrubbed...<BR>>> URL: <A
href="http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20131111/2c5cdec1/attachment.html">http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20131111/2c5cdec1/attachment.html</A>
<BR>>> _______________________________________________<BR>>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>> <A
href="mailto:Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org</A><BR>>>
<A
href="https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways">https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways</A><BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -------------- next part
--------------<BR>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<BR>> URL: <A
href="http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20131112/cf3be8ee/attachment.html">http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20131112/cf3be8ee/attachment.html</A>
<BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>> <A
href="mailto:Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org</A><BR>>
<A
href="https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways">https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways</A><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Pittsburgh-railways
mailing list<BR><A
href="mailto:Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org</A><BR><A
href="https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways">https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
</BODY></HTML>