<div dir="ltr">I can introduce you to three young people in my apartment building. They are one male 23 yrs old, one female 22yrs old and one female 24 yrs old. I can also introduce you to the other four people living in the building (NOT counting myself) who are all past 45 years old who use PATransit on a daily basis. I am the only person in my building who has a vehicle. Also, those young people are daily riders of PATransit. Sometimes, like I have always said, we tend not to really get to know the city and are content to stay in the suburban areas.<br>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Derrick Brashear <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:shadow@dementix.org" target="_blank">shadow@dementix.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">i'm younger. well. probably younger than the rest of you. i'm 40.<br>
<br>
if i can avoid driving i do. before i had an enforced 1 month pause in<br>
biking due to breaking my hand i<br>
rode 2500 miles from may 1 to september 25, including trips to such places<br>
as new kensington (round trip), monroeville (also round trip), manor, and<br>
robinson (the short way, 14 miles via steuben st, and the long way, 68<br>
miles via glassport and clairton.<br>
<br>
so yeah.<br>
<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 11:15 AM, Lattner, Raymond <<a href="mailto:rlattner@pa.gov">rlattner@pa.gov</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Who are these "younger people" that you speak of that do not want to drive<br>
> by choice? I can tell you<br>
> That in my world both my son and daughter could think of nothing but the<br>
> day they could obtain their<br>
> Learners permit to drive. Ditto for buying their own cars. This was true<br>
> of all their friends also.<br>
><br>
> Take public transit when they could drive themselves, NEVER.<br>
><br>
> Disclaimer. This was meant in a humorous way and not to criticize your<br>
> comments.<br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href="mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org">pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org</a> [mailto:<br>
> <a href="mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org">pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org</a>] On Behalf Of John<br>
> Swindler<br>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 11:04 AM<br>
> To: Western PA Trolley discussion<br>
> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Cleveland numbers<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Transit ridership is rising for several reasons. One surprise was that<br>
> younger people don't think the same way as us "old geezer" generation.<br>
> They are NOT as enamored by autos. Not massive numbers of young people -<br>
> just a couple percentage points. Negligible effect on highways, but<br>
> significant impact on transit ridership. This comment was from Amtrak -<br>
> they are finding young people not only without cars, but without drivers<br>
> license - not by circumstances, but by choice.<br>
><br>
> Also, never realized that Amtrak handles four oil trains a day to a<br>
> Delaware refinery. Amtrak admits they never saw (this traffic) coming.<br>
><br>
> And we should all be aware that VRE exists. I thought it was just a<br>
> couple daily commuter trains from Virginia into Washington. Didn't realize<br>
> that it was 30 daily trains. Busiest station?? If assumed it was Union<br>
> Station, would be wrong. It's L'Enfant Plaza. VRE is currently at<br>
> capacity and has more cars on-order. Also negotiating with railroads for<br>
> extensions to both lines.<br>
><br>
> MARC ridership was around 18,000 in 1997. Currently around 36,000 riders.<br>
> It's seen a 3.5% average annual growth over past 15 years.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> > From: <a href="mailto:fwschneider@comcast.net">fwschneider@comcast.net</a><br>
> > Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 10:25:48 -0500<br>
> > To: <a href="mailto:pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org</a><br>
> > Subject: Re: [PRCo] Cleveland numbers<br>
> ><br>
> > The positive numbers are in the western and southwestern cities. Los<br>
> Angeles has more rail riders today than Pacific Electric had in their 1923<br>
> peak.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > On Nov 26, 2013, at 6:18 AM, PC wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > > ..........><<a href="http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railway" target="_blank">http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railway</a><br>
> > > s/2013-November/032450.html> ..........>from Fred Schneider<br>
> > > fwschneider at <a href="http://comcast.net" target="_blank">comcast.net</a> ..........>Sun Nov 24 11:32:53 EST 2013<br>
> > ><br>
> > > ..........>Do not know where you find positive Cleveland numbers.....<br>
> > ><br>
> > > The above is your original question isn't it. You could not find<br>
> positive Cleveland Numbers. I answered that question didn't I.<br>
> > > Positive Cleveland numbers were provided. Now all this below.......<br>
> > > You seem disappointed that ridership is rising--transit ridership,<br>
> trolley, tram, bus--interests of people on this list.<br>
> > > How is it possible to please you?<br>
> > ><br>
> > > To address Cleveland ridership one observes the trend is sloping<br>
> > > downward with occasional rises above and dips below this trendline.<br>
> This is very openly noticed and admitted, along with the following:<br>
> > > 1-birds are hatched, birds grow, birds live, birds grow old, birds die.<br>
> > > 2-animals are born, animals grow, animals live, animals grow old,<br>
> animals die.<br>
> > > 3-plants sprout, plants grow, plants live, plants grow old, plants die.<br>
> > > 4-People are born, people grow, people live, people grow old, people<br>
> die.<br>
> > > 5-a business is formed, the business grows, the business thrives, the<br>
> business grows old, the business dies.<br>
> > > 6-industries form, industries grow, industries thrive, industries<br>
> grows old, industries die.<br>
> > > 7-etc.<br>
> > > 8-Everything has its day in the sun [then trundles into the mists of<br>
> > > history.] Vanity vanity; all is vanity. King Solomon<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Nothing lasts forever does it. Nothing is all inclusive isn't it.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > But if it makes you happy:<br>
> > ><br>
> > > People are falling off transit! People are falling off transit!<br>
> > > The sky is falling! The sky is falling!<br>
> > > Woe is mankind. Woe is mankind.<br>
> > > The end is here. The end is here.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > sighhh.<br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > Pc<br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > --------------------------------------------<br>
> > > On Sun, 11/24/13, Fred Schneider <<a href="mailto:fwschneider@comcast.net">fwschneider@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Subject: [PRCo] Cleveland numbers<br>
> > > To: "Western PA Trolley discussion"<br>
> > > <<a href="mailto:pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org</a>><br>
> > > Date: Sunday, November 24, 2013, 4:14 PM<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Most agencies in industrial areas had increases in the last three<br>
> > > years because we were coming out<br>
> > > of the recession. Of course if you only<br>
> > > look at the last three years, then you miss the large drop in riding<br>
> > > at the beginning of the recession.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Cleveland had a drop of perhaps 12 million the year going into the<br>
> > > 2010 recession but it appears to be masked by a series break in the<br>
> > > counts between 2005 and<br>
> > > 2006. A series break is a statistical term<br>
> > > when something happens to screw up the<br>
> > > data. The information was not sent to APTA<br>
> > > for 2006 leading me to suspect that perhaps the guy or gal who was<br>
> > > crunching the numbers in 2004 retired and the new person didn't<br>
> > > understand how to do it the same way and took several years to get<br>
> > > his or her act<br>
> > > together. Then in 2008, Cleveland sent in<br>
> > > data for both 2006 and 2007. Those 66 and 60 million<br>
> > > numbers in 2006 and 2007 look rather fishy.<br>
> > > S--t happens.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > The true numbers are probably more like a drop to about 52 or 53<br>
> > > million riders in the 2000-2001 recession, then back up to around 57<br>
> > > million through most of the early 200s until we hit the big<br>
> > > recession and then down to 44<br>
> > > million.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Here are the total Cleveland numbers (Bus, Rapid, Light Rail and<br>
> > > Demand Responsive) since 1995 by year from the APTA website.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > 1995: 58.265 million Cleveland<br>
> > > city population around 492,000.<br>
> > > 1996: 58.736 million<br>
> > > 1997: 60.892 million<br>
> > > 1998: 60.557 million<br>
> > > 1999: 59.300 million<br>
> > > 2000: 59.116 million 2000-2001<br>
> > > Recession Cleveland city population 2000 census<br>
> > > 478,403<br>
> > > 2001: 58.128 million Unemployed in<br>
> > > Cleveland number around 45,000.<br>
> > > 2002: 52.626 million<br>
> > > 2003: 53.446 million Unemployed in<br>
> > > Cleveland area top 60,000<br>
> > > 2004: 55.419 million<br>
> > > 2005: 57.026 million<br>
> > > 2006: 66,602 million Average unemployed in<br>
> > > Cleveland about 62,000<br>
> > > 2007: 60,025 million Average unemployed in<br>
> > > Cleveland region around 67,000<br>
> > > 2008: 57,287 million 2008-2009<br>
> > > recession Average unemployment in Cleveland<br>
> > > around 72,000.<br>
> > > 2009: 49,706 million Unemployment over<br>
> > > 80,000 people in Cleveland<br>
> > > 2010: 44.592 million Average unemployed in<br>
> > > Cleveland between 95,000 and 100,000. City population<br>
> > > 396,815.<br>
> > > 2011: 46.175 million Average unemployed in<br>
> > > Cleveland about 82,000.<br>
> > > 2012: 48.152 million Unemployment in<br>
> > > Cleveland in the high 70,000 range.<br>
> > > 2012: looks like a 1/3 of 1% increase<br>
> > ><br>
> > > <a href="http://www.deptofnumbers.com/unemployment/ohio/cleveland/" target="_blank">http://www.deptofnumbers.com/unemployment/ohio/cleveland/</a><br>
> > ><br>
> > > Phillip, I trust some agency numbers more than<br>
> > > others. Houston, for example, counts light<br>
> > > rail passengers as they walk through a light beam in the car<br>
> > > doorway. No matter how they pay their fare<br>
> > > ... pass, cash fare, or simply sneak on ... they are<br>
> > > counted. PATCO is probably fairly reliable<br>
> > > because every rider has a magnetically encoded ticket and they are<br>
> > > counted going through the fare gates.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > In addition, some counts are just plain lies because the agencies<br>
> > > are trying to prove to politicians that they are<br>
> > > worth bigger subsidies. Some are accidental<br>
> > > lies. Some are misunderstandings of<br>
> > > procedures. Some are done by clerks who<br>
> > > don't give a rat's ass. Some are<br>
> > > excellent.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > But, except for the apparent break in the numbers in 2006 and 2007,<br>
> > > I have no reason to suspect the continuity of the Cleveland numbers<br>
> > > because they mirror what is happening in the economy and with the<br>
> > > local population.<br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > _______________________________________________<br>
> > > Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>
> > > <a href="mailto:Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org</a><br>
> > > <a href="https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways" target="_blank">https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org</a><br>
> > <a href="https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways" target="_blank">https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways</a><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>Herb Brannon<b><font color="#888888"><div>In Pittsburgh............<br></div><div>.................A City And<br></div>And A State of Mind</font></b></div>
</div>Let's Go Pens<br></div>Let's Go Steelers<br><br></div>
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