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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'> <BR> <BR>The answer is a lot simpler, Fred. <BR> <BR>Braddock Ave. is not on its original alignment. <BR> <BR>From intersection of Monongahela and Braddock, Braddock was 'straightened' several hundred feet to east as part of Penn Lincoln Parkway construction early 1950s. It eliminated a "S" curve coming down a hillside.<BR> <BR>And the PERC map is correct - there was no loop. The dashed lines are showing original alignment of Braddock Ave., <BR> <BR>And Monongahela Ave. was NOT moved. It is on its original alignment from Whipple to Braddock. <BR> <BR>The brick street with rails is the original Braddock Ave., and the photo shows where it curved towards intersection of Braddock and Monongahela Ave. The Parkway construction also included moving houses on Greendale to north to provide an off ramp from parkway to Greendale.<BR> <BR>Was there a bridge over Nine Mile Run?? Don't know, as I wasn't delivering the Post Gazette morning paper in this area until 1956. But a culvert would have sufficed for this stream.<BR> <BR>Also, Fred, concur with your identifying photo location as Swissvale. We considered Regent Square as top of hill vicinity of Braddock/Hutchison, near Regent Square theater. It's not a separate municipality, but an area straddling the City of Pittsburgh boundary. Don't know if it was restricted to residential area within Pittsburgh. Never thought to ask or investigate. <BR> <BR>Here's the 'new' Braddock Ave. at Greendale. The original Braddock Ave. in this location would have gone under the earth fill to right.<BR> <BR> <BR><div id="inlineImage0" style="display: inline-block;"><!--tmpl() _54--><span contenteditable="true"> </span><div class="inlineImage" style="display: inline-block;" contenteditable="false" initheight="450" initwidth="760"><img width="760" height="450" src="cid:inlineImage0"></div><span contenteditable="true"> </span><!--/tmpl--></div> <BR>Also, encountered a similar Williamsburg docent. He was 'playing' Thomas Jefferson the day we were there several years ago with one of our German exchange students. He asked the same question, and generally got the same response. I liked it. To quote a Yorktown park ranger, "you can O.D. on history in this area".<BR> <BR>As for journey times, it took seventeen days to travel from Dayton area to Livingston Co., Illinois in the 1840s. It's mentioned in a distant cousins obit. <BR> <BR>Also, it is trying to rewrite history to again claim that there was nothing west of the mountains in the 1770s except fur traders and Indians. While both English and French fur traders were in the area a generation earlier, permanent settlements accelerated after the French and Indian War (Seven Years War), with many from Virginia, including my ancestors. Competing claims was part of Lord Dunmore's War between the Commonwealth's of Pennsylvania and of Virginia around 1770 (mostly involving legal representatives). See page 38 of Centennial History of Pittsburgh. <BR> <BR><a href="http://digital.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=pitttext;cc=pitttext;g=pitttextall;xc=1;q1=history%20of%20allegheny%20county;idno=00aee8946m;rgn=full%20text;didno=00aee8946m;view=image;seq=38;node=00aee8946m%3A1.7;page=root;size=s;frm=frameset">http://digital.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=pitttext;cc=pitttext;g=pitttextall;xc=1;q1=history%20of%20allegheny%20county;idno=00aee8946m;rgn=full%20text;didno=00aee8946m;view=image;seq=38;node=00aee8946m%3A1.7;page=root;size=s;frm=frameset</a>;<BR> <BR> <BR>As for snow, it was sunny and dry highway over route 22 until Harrisburg around 1pm. Snow flurries contributed to several accidents on 283 near Middletown, but worst was Mt. Joy to 222/30 split. Quickly lost count of accidents. The auto repair shops will be doing a brisk business next week. <BR> <BR>How many weeks until warmer weather in March???<BR> <BR><br> <BR><div>> From: fwschneider@comcast.net<br>> Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 13:47:03 -0500<br>> To: pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Regent Square memories<br>> <br>> Dennis, Ed and anyone else who cares…<br>> <br>> Ah, yes. Can we imagine a modern writer interpreting George Washington's trip to New York City for his inauguration? How long did it take Thomas Jefferson to journey from Monticello to the capitol of the British Colony of Viriginia in Williamsburg? Or what Emperor Claudius' journey from Rome to Londium in the early years of the first century AD might have been like? Or jam ups at canal tunnels in Britain in the19th century? Yes, I will admit that he doesn't interpret well. Ed, you should send him some pictures of cars stuck in the November 1950 snowstorm or the 1936 flood.<br>> <br>> So Mccloskey or McCloskey didn't identify where it located. <br>> <br>> If you go to Google maps, and find the intersection of South Braddock Avenue and Allenby Avenue in Swissvale, Pa., then move the little orange man over to Allenby Avenue on the map and you will get a street picture that shows double track. Now align it to face south and walk the man down the street until you get to the same woods that appears in the newspaper picture. If you never used Google maps, you can walk the man by clicking the mouse beyond where it is on the image that has been pulled up. To go back, rotate the image and do the same. If you wish to slowly advance from one picture to the next, use the arrows imbedded in the street … click on them. <br>> <br>> The Pittsburgh Electric Railway Club map shows a loop somewhere in that area near the Parkway East. However, that would not be double track in a brick street. My hunch is that Allenby today is the old connection from Braddock Avenue to Monongahela before the parkway was built and that neither the PERC map (1958) or the Pittsburgh Railways official map (1955) were ever corrected to show track moved over to the new Braddock Avenue and the new Monongahela Avenue. I guess that would have happened in 1951-1953 unless there was a long bridge on the old route over the ravine where the parkway was and that does not seem possible because Allenby Avenue is sloping downhill at the same rate as Braddock Avenue does … it would have had to go under the parkway if it used the old alignment until 1967. <br>> <br>> I photographed cars in Rankin on Sunday morning with Jim Shuman and Norm Vutz but I have no recollection whether we drove down Braddock Avenue or Edgewood Avenue.<br>> <br>> Well, the storm has hit. White stuff coming own at about 1/2 inch an hour.<br>> <br>> To end on the same note on which I began, one of the best interpretive speeches I ever enjoyed was given by a docent at William and Mary College in Williamsburg, Virginia. He began by asking where everyone was from. And he acknowledged that he knew of all those places … Philadelphia, Richmond, Lancaster, Baltimore. They were all familiar to him. Until someone said Chicago. Then asked, "Where is this place called Chicago." The lady said, "In the state of Illinois." The docent said, "State, the is not state called Illinois. Only British colonies." He brought everybody back to the 1770s. There was nothing west of mountains but fur trappers and indians. <br>> <br>> fws<br>> <br>> <br>> On Dec 8, 2013, at 10:38 AM, Edward H. Lybarger wrote:<br>> <br>> > The writer is not doing the finest job of interpreting history in its own<br>> > time, is he?<br>> > <br>> > -----Original Message-----<br>> > From: pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org<br>> > [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org] On Behalf Of DF<br>> > Cramer<br>> > Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2013 7:12 AM<br>> > To: pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> > Subject: [PRCo] Regent Square memories<br>> > <br>> > http://triblive.com/opinion/featuredcommentary/5150950-74/pittsburgh-streetc<br>> > ars-trolleys#axzz2mstNqj9b<br>> > The paper must have been looking for filler.<br>> > <br>> > Dennis F. Cramer <br>> > http://home.windstream.net/dfc1/ <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > -------------- next part --------------<br>> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> > URL:<br>> > http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/201312<br>> > 08/bba3ecf1/attachment.html <br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>> > Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> > https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > <br>> > _______________________________________________<br>> > Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>> > Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> > https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<br>> Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<br>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<br></div> </div>
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