<HTML><HEAD></HEAD>
<BODY dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Century Gothic'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Fred</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>If the speedometers in the DART cars are accurate, 60 or
slightly higher is what I observed on long stretches of open track.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Dwight</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #000000; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #000000; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 4px solid; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #000000">
<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=fwschneider@comcast.net
href="mailto:fwschneider@comcast.net">Fred Schneider</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, 10 April, 2014 17:04</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org
href="mailto:pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">Western PA Trolley
discussion</A> ; <A title=dwightlong@verizon.net
href="mailto:dwightlong@verizon.net">Dwight Long</A> ; <A
title=j_swindler@hotmail.com href="mailto:j_swindler@hotmail.com">John
Swindler</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PRCo] Skybus piece from Post
Gazette</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP-COLOR: #000000; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: #000000; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 4px solid; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: #000000">
<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>In
answer to to your question about the high speed ride in the low floor car…
<BR><BR>I sent a personal note to John Swindler which he turned around and
replied to by sending it to the discussion group instead of to me.
That is why you are confused. <BR><BR>Why John posted it to the group, ask
him. We were chatting about the Skybus proposal versus today's
ultra-slow light rail. I explained that the fastest ride I ever had was up
the valley in a low floor car.<BR><BR>I mentioned to him that I had ridden to
Pittsburgh from Castle Shannon one day in 1952 or 1953 full-bore in a low floor
car. When was it? Probably April 1952 during Easter
vacation from 6th grade. I do not remember whether it was a 5400 or
a 3700 … just going on what might have been in Tunnel at that time.
Could have been a 5000 also. And so I explained some of
the speed characteristics of the two cars. <BR><BR>I was also
suggesting that the present service might be speeded up if PAT had the wisdom to
install crossing gates (both lanes, both sides, so you cannot drive around them)
all the way through Dormont and Beechview and Castle Shannon … the whole system
where it is on private right-of-way. Then take the freaking
governors off the cars. We went from low-speed 25 mph to
PCCs. Then we speeded up a flock of the low-floors so that they
would be compatible with the PCCs. And then we went back to
low-speed with the LRVs …. I have been told because the nice people in Dormont
do not want the risk of being hit by fast transit. Fast autos are
OK. <BR><BR>And that is why I made the suggestion that some people need to
look at Dallas where 60 mph LRVs are operated. Of course it would be
false to say that was the system standard … not everywhere … but where they can,
they do. My memory is that 45 is pretty much typical but on long
straight stretches, they will rack the trains up to 60. And last
year their average weekday LRT riding was 94,950 fares (or about 47,500
individual riders). That's a lot of people. (If you want
to compare it to Pittsburgh … Dallas city covers two counties and DART light
rail handles about 3.8% of the daily trips to work there. PAT light
rail handles about 1.4% of the work trips in Allegheny County. Rough SWAGS
based on something less than half the population.) <BR><BR>But then
there's a difference in population numbers. We already established
that western Pennsylvania is losing population. Difficult to want to
invest in a declining market….. Dallas-Fort Worth has grown to
the forth largest metro area in the USA (behind New York, Los Angeles and
Chicago) … it has grown from somewhere near a million people in 1950 to about 6
1/2 million today. In that environment, you could never connect the dots
with enough transit. But that light rail actually connects Dallas
with several cities almost as big as Pittsburgh. The train in the
picture is a cutback on the Plano line … today Plano is a city of about a
quarter of a million people. <BR><BR>And notice … not like
Pittsburgh Railways to Charleroi … no pre-kinked rail. (Was it John
Swindler who came up with that term 40 years ago, that PRC bought Pre-kinked
rail?) <BR><BR>By the way guys, if you hate winter … this can be a
great place in the summer. When I took this picture a couple of
years ago, it was 116 degrees. (Two weeks ago … drove past the
same spot and it was only 70.) <BR><BR>
<P>
<HR>
<BR><BR><BR><BR>On Apr 10, 2014, at 1:19 PM, Dwight Long wrote:<BR><BR>>
<BR>> Fred<BR>> <BR>> To what ride do you refer?<BR>> <BR>> I
can’t find anything relating to a ride in a Jones car in the antecedents.
Sounds like a story worth knowing about. <BR>> <BR>> At the end of
Jones cars, or approaching the end, were not the ten DE cars that were retained
all equipped with the rewound, “high speed” motors and controls?<BR>>
<BR>> Dwight<BR>> <BR>> From: Fred Schneider <BR>> Sent: Thursday,
10 April, 2014 11:04<BR>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion <BR>> Subject:
Re: [PRCo] Skybus piece from Post Gazette<BR>> First of all, I do not
remember if the car was a 3700 or a 5400. It was obviously a high
speed because there were no low speeds left by that time except double-end
cars. A 3700 had lower ratio gearing so it would achieve
higher speeds but would take longer to get there. A standard high
speed low floor city car might be good for about 37 mph while a 3750 might do 45
or so. <BR>> <BR>> The interurbans beyond Drake and Library
were quite slow when I rode them in March 30 and 31, 1953. One
Charleroi motorman explained that once the company decided to give up, they also
quit maintaining the tracks. But even north of Drake and
Library, I don't remember it as being good before the LRV era. <BR>>
<BR>> Now go down to Dallas and ride DART. They have some 60 mph
operation. It's hard to fathom a single light rail line that is 50
miles long but that is what the Red Line is from Plano to Dallas to DFW
Airport. It is their version of the Paoli local. <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> On Apr 10, 2014, at 10:06 AM, John Swindler wrote:<BR>> <BR>>>
<BR>>> <BR>>> The recollection is a somewhat bumpy, slow ride.
But perceptions can be deceiving. Speed might have been as fast as the PCC
cars attempting to negotiate PAT's abysmal trackwork from that era.
<BR>>> <BR>>> Which brings back a memory of last day of Drake around
1999 - PCC operator was running 'pedal to the metal' - and kept thinking
that this was amazing - something never experienced 25-30 years earlier from the
Skybus era. <BR>>> <BR>>>
<BR>>>> From: alto_trombone@hotmail.com<BR>>>> To:
pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>> Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2014
06:01:38 -0400<BR>>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Skybus piece from Post
Gazette<BR>>>> <BR>>>> I rode it. Who else?<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> Dennis F. Cramer <BR>>>>
http://home.windstream.net/dfc1/<BR>>>> <BR>>>>> From:
fwschneider@comcast.net<BR>>>>> Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2014 12:59:35
-0400<BR>>>>> To:
pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>> Subject: [PRCo]
Skybus piece from Post Gazette<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>>
<BR>>>>> Found by one of Bombardier's (nee Westinghouse) employees
and forwarded to me by Dave Hamley. Thanks Dave.<BR>>>>>
<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> <BR>>>>>
<BR>>>>> -------------- next part --------------<BR>>>>>
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<BR>>>>> Name:
Skybus.pdf<BR>>>>> Type: application/pdf<BR>>>>> Size:
1295638 bytes<BR>>>>> Desc: not available<BR>>>>> Url :
http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20140409/2f948030/attachment.pdf
<BR>>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>> -------------- next part
--------------<BR>>>> An HTML attachment was
scrubbed...<BR>>>> URL:
http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20140410/88741343/attachment.html
<BR>>>> _______________________________________________<BR>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>
<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> -------------- next part
--------------<BR>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<BR>>> URL:
http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20140410/c0ce6c28/attachment.html
<BR>>> _______________________________________________<BR>>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
_______________________________________________<BR>> Pittsburgh-railways
mailing list<BR>> Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -------------- next part --------------<BR>> An
HTML attachment was scrubbed...<BR>> URL:
http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20140410/ecbc774b/attachment.html
<BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
</BODY></HTML>