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<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">Fred</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">Not to be unduly querulous, but I would say
that the Flying Fraction WAS an east end line--especially the route 77 portion
of it. the 54 portion is marginal, but if you consider Oakland to be east
end, then it was also.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">I don't know the history of the extra fare
zones on the long routes to the east. I just know they existed during the
time I rode PRC cars in that territory, and I know how they worked.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">I assume the reason that 12 was kept for so
long is because someone in the PRC office nourished a forlorn hope that someday
the Harmony Route would realize the foolishness of its ways and would restore
rail service out that way. :)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">I know nothing about 22 being free. The
only times I ever used it I either paid cash or transfer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">Yes, you missed Baltimore. Or were their last
cars delivered during the war? (I'm not where your book is!) You
also missed Kansas City, probably because of their refusal to accept post-WWII
standard standee window cars. Were you including IT in St. Louis?
Louisville took delivery of at least some of their order and actually operated
one of them for a short distance, but never in revenue service. I think
the post war cars in St. Louis just barely made 20 years--except that most all
of them had been sold elsewhere by that time. That brings up another
point. While it is true that the post war cars you cited, for the most
part did not make twenty years on the systems that bought them, they DID last
twenty years or more as most if not all were sold for use elsewhere. LA's
and St Louis's probably would have made the big 2-0 had not NCL sold
out to transit authorities, and Washington's surely would have had not politics
reared its ugly head. Lastly, can anyone on this list verify or refute the
story told by a prominent Philly area traction "expert" that the Dallas cars
were originally authorized by ODT for LVT, but that property was too cash poor
(account a series of wrecks on the Bell route) and sold the rights to Dallas?
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">Dwight</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=fwschneider@comcast.net href="mailto:fwschneider@comcast.net">Fred
Schneider</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org
href="mailto:pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">Western PA Trolley
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, May 11, 2014 3:18 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PRCo] Another guy
complaining...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR>1) Lougee was inconsistent. They
included 26 and 34 in with 25 Island Avenue. Then they split 66
from 64 and 69 from 68. Not my fault.
Consultants were no better then than some of them are
today.<BR><BR>2) I said most were east end. Eight of
the heaviest ten were east end … routes 10/11/15 (again they put 11 in with
them) and 77/54 were not. <BR><BR>3) Yes, some of those East End
lines had a second zone but I don't know if they did for their entire life or
only at certain times. I thought about that and ignored it because
I didn't know enough to stick my food deep into my mouth. My memory was
telling me that McKeesport had zones when they had that short lived permit
card in the 1950s.<BR><BR>4) And you did not give me four points.
But one you should have mentioned and didn't. Was there a period
when route 22 was free? Or was it just always pay enter when
everything else was pay leave downtown. It looked like the
strongest money maker in the system …. UNLESS THEY WERE LARGELY TRANSFER
RIDERS. Again, there are too many factors we do not
know.<BR><BR>Obviously, a few of the marginal routes based on passengers per
route mile could easily have come out significantly better if we looked at
them in terms of revenue per car hour. <BR><BR>For
example … Dormont (the old route 42) ranked 21st out of 65 lines in raw
numbers of passengers carried and 13th in terms of passengers per mile but it
was also going to come out pretty good in terms of revenue per car hour
because most of that line was on private right-of-way. Routes 2
and 3 were mid range in raw passenger counts and Millvale was average and Etna
was below norm when we adjust it to mileage but if we adjust it to hours, they
might have come out better because parts of E. Ohio Street were rather
fast. Same thing might apply to some of those West End
lines.<BR><BR>But I do marvel, Dwight, at how some lasted as long as they did
… like 12 Evergreen, which ranked 52 out of 65 in raw passengers and worst of
all adjusted to miles. Why did they keep that going into late 1953 for a
few hundred people a day? Or was the rail so new that they ran it
just to keep the rail in the rate base? <BR><BR>Of course the whole
industry made a lot of insane decisions in the late 1940s thinking riding came
back in the war and they could keep in … they didn't understand they only had
riders because the car owners were forced to garage their machines because of
gas rationing. Think how many cities bought PCCs after the war
thinking they needed them … only to sell them off for scrap within a decade
(Minneapolis, Detroit, Louisville -- didn't event take delivery, Cleveland,
Chicago, Birmingham, Los Angeles, Dallas, St. Louis, Washington).
Did I miss any? All of those I listed didn't last 20
years. <BR><BR>On May 11, 2014, at 2:44 PM, Dwight Long
wrote:<BR><BR>> <BR>> Fred<BR>> <BR>> Some points: <BR>>
<BR>> 1) By the methodology you used for other routes, Rt 69 was a
cutback of 68 so the ridership should have been included in that line's
figures.<BR>> <BR>> 2) Since when was 10/15 an East End
route!!!!????<BR>> <BR>> 3) The really long East End routes did
have zone fares--don't know how you equate that, though, unless you have
revenue rather than ridership figures per route.<BR>> <BR>>
Dwight<BR>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: Fred
Schneider <BR>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion <BR>>
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2014 12:55 PM<BR>> Subject: [PRCo] Another guy
complaining...<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Another guy complaining because
other routes have more service than the route he uses. The link
leads only to the editorial page; you will have to scan down until you find
the headline reading "Greenfield Car Line Service Criticized."<BR>>
<BR>> <A
href="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=mvUaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=40wEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4977%2C2388619">http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=mvUaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=40wEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4977%2C2388619</A><BR>>
<BR>> And now guys … the facts. Again we are
bitching because another line has more people riding and requires heavier
service. The guy complaining was riding the lightest hauling line
coming up 4th Avenue so wouldn't we expect the company to dispatch the least
number of cars? And wouldn't we expect the newspaper to
print something that would stir up the dirt? Sure as God made green
apples … because stirring the dirt sells papers. <BR>>
<BR>> The heaviest car line on Fourth Avenue? … Route 68
had a weekday average load of 28,200. Of course that was
influenced by summer weekdays at Kennywood.<BR>> <BR>> Second
heaviest would be 55 East Pittsburgh via 2nd Avenue and it's short turn, 57
Glenwood. The typical weekday load was about 25,000.<BR>>
<BR>> Third was route 56 McKeesport with a normal weekday volume of
about 22,000 riders.<BR>> <BR>> O. M. G. … those three routes on
2nd Avenue added up to more than PATCO was hauling between Philadelphia and
Lindenwold in its prime and they were running long trains in the rush
hours! <BR>> <BR>> Fourth would be route 64 East
Pittsburgh via Wilkinsburg and its short turn 66 Wilkinsburg via
Forbes. The two of them hauled almost 13,000 fares on
weekdays.<BR>> <BR>> Then we have route 67 to Rankin and Braddock
with 18,300 followed by the Carrick car he mentions with 18,100 fares.<BR>>
<BR>> Next to the lowest was 69 Squirrel Hill carried about
6800.<BR>> <BR>> Finally, his line carried fewer than 6,500.
One would expect about 24 cars to come down 4th Avenue on other routes for
every car on this character's line.<BR>> <BR>> Why?
Because he lived on a line 5 miles long with the only population at the top of
the hill near the outer end of the line. The inner four miles was
wedged in between the B&O and the mills or in a ravine heading up the hill
to Greenfield .. not much there to stimulate riding from his
'hood. <BR>> <BR>> And he thinks a bus company would
want to serve that 'hood? Maybe every 20 minutes then or every
hour today.<BR>> <BR>> Now guys … if you want to print and save
the story, it is attached as a old style word file.
And if you want the route data, also attached is an Excel file showing all
that information from the 1948 Lougee study. I have added
several addition columns to the basic Lougee data.<BR>> <BR>> One
ranks the routes by the raw number of passengers.<BR>> <BR>> But
just because we haul people doesn't mean we make money. So I also
added a column for passengers per route mile, which is an important number
when we are not charging zone fares. And then an additional column
ranking the routes according to passengers per mile. <BR>>
<BR>> That shows that the heaviest routes are, as we always
understood, mostly those long East End lines like 88, 82, 87, 68, 77/54, 55,
56, 75, 94 and 10/15 in that order. But those that hauled the most
per mile were 22, 85, 88, 50, 82, 59, 44, 53, 94 (95) and 8 in that
order. You really didn't expect to see that Homestead - Homeville
shuttle, now did ya? Sixth heaviest on a car-mile basis. <BR>>
<BR>> Of course the worst routes were … well, you look at it.<BR>>
<BR>> A third array of data I wish I had but have no way of
calculating would be passengers carried per car hour. Naturally it
probably would not be too impressive on routes like 55 and 88 where you are
just slogging along.<BR>> <BR>> Nuff B. S.
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
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