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<DIV><FONT size=4>Fred</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=4>It’s called transition and automatic transition came about in
freight units with what enthusiasts call the F5 and what EMD called an advance
F3. The F5 was simply a late model F3 with automatic transition. I’d
have to look up the transition (yes that was intended) in pax units or other
manufacturer’s products, but I’d guess the E7 was about right. It was an
improvement and likely led to lower maintenance and operational costs as the
engineer did not have to make decisions that required some skill—the loco made
them for him. But that alone (manual transition) was no bar at all to
dieselization. The rewards were too great to forestall it. Yes, the
ODT prohibited the making of road diesels and rationed production of switchers
during the war. You are partially right about steam loco production, but
not totally. Otherwise there would have been no T1s!!!!</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=4>You are also correct about oil. There was enough of it
but not rubber. Also consider that at the rate cars wore out in those
days, if no restrictions had been placed on driving, think of all the steel,
copper and other war-needed materials that would have had to go into making
spare parts. The easiest and most politically acceptable way of mitigating this
was to ration the fuel.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=4>Dwight</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=fwschneider@comcast.net
href="mailto:fwschneider@comcast.net">Fred Schneider</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, 15 May, 2014 11:23</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org
href="mailto:pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">Western PA Trolley
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PRCo] UMW blamed for diesels</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>The
original FT design and perhaps also the EA and E6 diesels from EMD required that
the engineer separately control engine speed and motor control
notching. In other words, you notch up the engines to produce a
higher voltage and then you separately notch up the motors like a
streetcar. I think that all changed with the F3 an E7
models. I really don't know because the only engine I
regularly ran was a GE 44 tonner at Strasburg. <BR><BR>So again, we
have pre-war and post-war technology. And the manufacturers were
forbidden from making changes during the war. You were stuck with
prewar designs until the war was over. It doesn't say that EMD didn't know
how … only that they were not allowed to make improvements during the
war. I am not even sure that EMD and Alco were allowed to
manufacture diesels during the war … remember that they used oil that we needed
for the war. <BR><BR>On the peripheral subject of oil … as I understand
it, we had plenty of oil / gasoline and the rationing for domestic use was only
to conserve tires because Japan controlled the rubber supply and we had not
really perfected a good synthetic rubber yet. Perhaps EMD simply
shifted the LaGrange, Illinois plant to war production. <BR><BR>Back to
design restrictions, same applied, John, to new steam. The railroads
could invest in new steam during the war but it had to be from old
designs. The War Production Board did not allow a railroad to draw up new
blueprints for an all new engine. The Pennsylvania J-1 2-10-4, for
example, was allowed because it was nothing more than a Chesapeake and Ohio
class T-1 2-10-4 in disguise. Of course there were minor changes …
headlight moved up, keystone on the smokebox … things that made it look
Pennsy.<BR><BR>Europe had their problems too. In 1947 there were
numerous articles in the Pittsburgh Press about coal shortages in your mother's
country, John. British industry was crippled because the mines
couldn't turn out coal fast enough.<BR><BR>I would contest that labor was cheap
in Europe … It isn't cheap if you are a captive market. If you build
it for yourself, then it isn't cheap. Their wages were lower in
relation to ours therefore we brand it as cheap. But in relation to
their needs? Maybe not. Remember, for example, that
Germany essentially lost an entire generation of its men because of World War
II. They had a matriarchal society after the war except for the
Gastarbeiter or guest workers from other nations that helped them over the
crisis. It took them years to get over the crisis … auto factories, for
example, were not fully back into production until the very tail end of the
1940s in Germany. I once met a man our parents age in Hamburg,
Germany … spent an afternoon in his flat. He had been in a prisoner
of war camp in the USA during the tail end of WW2 … I think Salt Lake
City. Many of the officers were moved here because they knew enough
to be safe guarded on this continent instead of housed over there. He was
an office. I asked him what portion were in prisoner of war camps at
the end of the war … his answer was "those who were not dead." That
was an over simplification but it does give you an idea of what the war did to
them. When you start with a total population and wipe out 10% and
you lose more men than women and you also lose a big chunk in their 20s … you
have a big labor shortage after the war. Russia, Lithuania, and some
other nations were worse. (We don't comprehend … most of our guys
came home. We lost 1 out of 1,000 people in our population and we
fought in Japan, Italy, North Africa, Britain and Germany.) <BR><BR>But in
relation to us … in terms of a captive economy … yes, raw salaries and wages
were lower. In Germany, even as late as 1960, they got about 25 cents for
every dollar our workers got. Today they do better than we
do. <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>On May 15, 2014, at 10:29 AM, John Swindler
wrote:<BR><BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Timing is often overlooked. Good
point.<BR>> <BR>> Could railroads dieselized earlier?? I doubt
it. Maybe diesel engine technology needed improved dependability from
forced WW2 requirements??? (dunno - just raising question) <BR>>
<BR>> Same with jet engines. How many crashes before jet airline travel
became a reasonable safe alternative?? And the price became more
than competitive?? I was paying the same price for air fare to Europe in
1988-2004 as I paid in 1968/9. (again, dunno - this is Ed's bailiwick)
<BR>> <BR>> The railroads could have invested in new steam locos after
WW2, as was the case in much of Europe. But fuel was cheap in US and labor
was expensive. Oil had to be imported to Europe with expensive US
dollars. For Europe, coal was cheap, and so was labor. It took me
only a couple days during summer of 1969 to earn more than what London Transport
was paying their conductors for the month.<BR>> <BR>> Related to 'timing'
is the necessary support systems for a new technology. Consider computers,
for example. What good is the computer without the associated software and
other systems?? <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>> From:
trams2@comcast.net<BR>>> To:
pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014
09:10:00 -0400<BR>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] UMW blamed for
diesels<BR>>> <BR>>> We also need to consider the timing...railroads
could have converted to<BR>>> diesels much earlier than they did, but
would have had to write off a large<BR>>> amount of investment to do
so. By the end of the war, though, a lot of that<BR>>> investment
was simply worn out and had to be replaced anyway. At this
point<BR>>> the railroads were simply following the dollars and buying the
most<BR>>> transportation they could get for the buck. Steam
locomotives and their<BR>>> attendant infrastructure were horribly
inefficient, and did not get replaced<BR>>> in kind. John L. Lewis
was a side show.<BR>>> <BR>>> Ed<BR>>> <BR>>>
-----Original Message-----<BR>>> From:
pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>
[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org] On Behalf Of
Fred<BR>>> Schneider<BR>>> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 9:01
AM<BR>>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion<BR>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo]
UMW blamed for diesels<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> I think we have to
look at everything ..<BR>>> <BR>>> 1. Smoke control
laws.<BR>>> <BR>>> 2. UMW strikes making it hard to get
coal.<BR>>> <BR>>> 3. Economics of running steam . we
can lay off 4 out of every 5 workers<BR>>> and well a lot of ground we had
used for shop buildings. Might even be able<BR>>> to sell some shop
buildings to other people for factories but that isn't too<BR>>>
likely.<BR>>> <BR>>> 4. No need for water in the deserts
of the American west. <BR>>> <BR>>> 5.
Locomotive availability . that diesel will run for thousands of
miles<BR>>> before it needs any servicing. Fueling can be done
from a truck driven up<BR>>> to the railroad . we don't need water
columns, tanks, coal tipples. And<BR>>> the steam engine will
run about 100 miles between service stops and it needs<BR>>> a lot of
spare engines along the way because it likes to self destruct.
<BR>>> <BR>>> An example of the self destruct concept..
When the PRR ran steam from<BR>>> Philadelphia to Harrisburg, there was a
K4s stationed in Lancaster as a<BR>>> protect engine. In the
evening it sat in the station facing west because<BR>>> most trains ran
west in the evening. In the morning in faced east.<BR>>>
Always with a crew on it. John Bowman told the story of standing in
the<BR>>> cab of that K4 one day talking when he was told to jump off
NOW. The<BR>>> signals had changed to clear on the pocket
track. They were going to work.<BR>>> In January 1938, when the
wires were energized to Harrisburg, the protect<BR>>> engine was no longer
needed. <BR>>> <BR>>> The steam engine may have been pretty to
the railfan . dynamic . great to<BR>>> watch. But we have to
think how many billions of dollars were saved by<BR>>> scrapping them
..... and how much cleaner the sky is over Pittsburgh,<BR>>> Pitcairn,
Glenwood, Rook, McKees Rocks and other places. <BR>>> <BR>>>
I've been sending these guys some interesting articles on Pittsburgh<BR>>>
Railways. I have ignored the smoke control stories but they are
there too.<BR>>> And there was an occasional picture of downtown on days
when you couldn't<BR>>> see the top of the Gulf Building from the
street. <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> On May 15, 2014, at
8:21 AM, John Swindler wrote:<BR>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>> Easier to blame another industry/organization than to look at
the<BR>>> economics of railroad operation. Some of David Morgan's
writing talk about<BR>>> the reduction/elimination of labor costs
associated with conversion to<BR>>> diesel - despite the high initial
capital costs for diesel operation. <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>> From:
fwschneider@comcast.net<BR>>>>> Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 14:33:45
-0400<BR>>>>> To:
pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] UMW
blamed for diesels<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> Writer forgets that
the PRR announced several days earlier that it would<BR>>> cooperate with
smoke control. Blame cannot be totally based on either<BR>>>
smoke control, economics or John L. Lewis and his boys.
<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>>
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FisbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=6kwEAAAAIBAJ&p<BR>>>>>
g=3025%2C2594239<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>> <BR>>>>>
<BR>>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways mailing list<BR>>>>>
Pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>>>
https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>>>
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