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<DIV><FONT size=4>John</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=4>the tipping point for over the road diesels was EMD’s
development of the first E units for pax and the FT for freight. Both were
immediate pre-WWII successes. Only the war prevented the more progressive
roads from going much faster into diesels from that point.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=4>Dwight</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=j_swindler@hotmail.com
href="mailto:j_swindler@hotmail.com">John Swindler</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, 15 May, 2014 10:29</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org
href="mailto:pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">Western PA Trolley
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PRCo] UMW blamed for diesels</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'><BR> <BR>Timing
is often overlooked. Good point.<BR> <BR>Could railroads dieselized
earlier?? I doubt it. Maybe diesel engine technology needed improved
dependability from forced WW2 requirements??? (dunno - just raising
question) <BR> <BR>Same with jet engines. How many crashes
before jet airline travel became a reasonable safe alternative?? And
the price became more than competitive?? I was paying the same price for
air fare to Europe in 1988-2004 as I paid in 1968/9. (again, dunno - this
is Ed's bailiwick) <BR> <BR>The railroads could have invested in new steam
locos after WW2, as was the case in much of Europe. But fuel was cheap in
US and labor was expensive. Oil had to be imported to Europe with
expensive US dollars. For Europe, coal was cheap, and so was labor.
It took me only a couple days during summer of 1969 to earn more than what
London Transport was paying their conductors for the month.<BR> <BR>Related
to 'timing' is the necessary support systems for a new technology.
Consider computers, for example. What good is the computer without the
associated software and other systems?? <BR> <BR>
<BR><BR> <BR>> From: trams2@comcast.net<BR>> To:
pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 09:10:00
-0400<BR>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] UMW blamed for diesels<BR>> <BR>> We
also need to consider the timing...railroads could have converted to<BR>>
diesels much earlier than they did, but would have had to write off a
large<BR>> amount of investment to do so. By the end of the war,
though, a lot of that<BR>> investment was simply worn out and had to be
replaced anyway. At this point<BR>> the railroads were simply following
the dollars and buying the most<BR>> transportation they could get for the
buck. Steam locomotives and their<BR>> attendant infrastructure were
horribly inefficient, and did not get replaced<BR>> in kind. John L.
Lewis was a side show.<BR>> <BR>> Ed<BR>> <BR>> -----Original
Message-----<BR>> From:
pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>
[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org] On Behalf Of
Fred<BR>> Schneider<BR>> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 9:01 AM<BR>> To:
Western PA Trolley discussion<BR>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] UMW blamed for
diesels<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I think we have to look at everything
..<BR>> <BR>> 1. Smoke control laws.<BR>> <BR>>
2. UMW strikes making it hard to get coal.<BR>> <BR>>
3. Economics of running steam . we can lay off 4 out of every 5
workers<BR>> and well a lot of ground we had used for shop buildings.
Might even be able<BR>> to sell some shop buildings to other people for
factories but that isn't too<BR>> likely.<BR>> <BR>> 4. No
need for water in the deserts of the American west. <BR>>
<BR>> 5. Locomotive availability . that diesel will run for
thousands of miles<BR>> before it needs any servicing. Fueling
can be done from a truck driven up<BR>> to the railroad . we don't need water
columns, tanks, coal tipples. And<BR>> the steam engine will run
about 100 miles between service stops and it needs<BR>> a lot of spare
engines along the way because it likes to self destruct. <BR>> <BR>>
An example of the self destruct concept.. When the PRR ran steam
from<BR>> Philadelphia to Harrisburg, there was a K4s stationed in Lancaster
as a<BR>> protect engine. In the evening it sat in the station
facing west because<BR>> most trains ran west in the evening. In
the morning in faced east.<BR>> Always with a crew on it. John
Bowman told the story of standing in the<BR>> cab of that K4 one day talking
when he was told to jump off NOW. The<BR>> signals had changed to
clear on the pocket track. They were going to work.<BR>> In January
1938, when the wires were energized to Harrisburg, the protect<BR>> engine
was no longer needed. <BR>> <BR>> The steam engine may have been
pretty to the railfan . dynamic . great to<BR>> watch. But we
have to think how many billions of dollars were saved by<BR>> scrapping them
..... and how much cleaner the sky is over Pittsburgh,<BR>> Pitcairn,
Glenwood, Rook, McKees Rocks and other places. <BR>> <BR>> I've been
sending these guys some interesting articles on Pittsburgh<BR>>
Railways. I have ignored the smoke control stories but they are
there too.<BR>> And there was an occasional picture of downtown on days when
you couldn't<BR>> see the top of the Gulf Building from the
street. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> On May 15, 2014, at 8:21 AM, John
Swindler wrote:<BR>> <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > Easier to
blame another industry/organization than to look at the<BR>> economics of
railroad operation. Some of David Morgan's writing talk about<BR>> the
reduction/elimination of labor costs associated with conversion to<BR>>
diesel - despite the high initial capital costs for diesel operation.
<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>>
>> From: fwschneider@comcast.net<BR>> >> Date: Fri, 2 May 2014
14:33:45 -0400<BR>> >> To:
pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org<BR>> >> Subject: [PRCo] UMW
blamed for diesels<BR>> >> <BR>> >> Writer forgets that the
PRR announced several days earlier that it would<BR>> cooperate with smoke
control. Blame cannot be totally based on either<BR>> smoke
control, economics or John L. Lewis and his boys. <BR>> >>
<BR>> >>
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FisbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=6kwEAAAAIBAJ&p<BR>>
>> g=3025%2C2594239<BR>> >> <BR>> >> <BR>> >>
<BR>> >> _______________________________________________<BR>>
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https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways<BR>>
> <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
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