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<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">Fred</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">I believe that during the 1946 strike the
Washington line operated only between Washington and Canonsburg. I don't
know what the status of Charleroi was, but if it is true that WP supplied power
to non-Allegheny County subs, they could have run between Elco loop in Roscoe
and Riverview loop, or between Charleroi and Roscoe, or between Charleroi and
Riverview. The Donora line could have run between Riverview and
Donora. But I don't know if they did. Some research into the
archives at Arden would no doubt disclose the answer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">Did paving projects also do in the outlying
small operations? (Leave Wheeling Traction and M-WP out of this for the
moment). I'm sure WP looked at the net present value of the estimated
income streams if rail operations were continued, and compared this with the
capital outlay required for the repaving. (obviously there were other
issues to consider, but that is a simplistic way of looking at it). They
MIGHT have put up the bucks for Crawford Avenue with consideration of all the
factors. Or they might not have. They could have continued to
operate south of Connellsville without Crawford Avenue, and that might have used
enough power for their purposes in load balancing. I don't know.
Certainly the fact that the issue never arose relegates all this to the area of
supposition---------------------</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">Dwight</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=fwschneider@comcast.net href="mailto:fwschneider@comcast.net">Fred
Schneider</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org
href="mailto:pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">Western PA Trolley
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 21, 2014 1:18
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PRCo] Reading - Pgh. Press
- March 1 thru 9.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I'll agree that there was no residential base load as we know
it today … nothing but 25 or 40 watt light bulbs. We ironed or
clothes by heating the iron on the kitchen stove. Furnaces were
coal and often ductless … just a whole in the floor over the furnace all the
way to the second floor so there was no fan load.
Refrigerator? Well, GE began making them in 1930 and before that we used
ice boxes although from the teens onward the commercial ice plants were often
electrically powered instead of steam powered. <BR><BR>What was
the industrial base load? What did mining use? What
did the glass works and foundries and steel mills use? What about
the local ice plants to make block ice for your ice boxes … they needed to run
some pretty heavy ammonia compressors. And West Penn Power wasn't simply
the railways' territory, it included Armstrong County, Washington County, some
of the fringes of Allegheny County, Greene County<BR><BR>How fragile the
railways were was impressed on me, Dwight, by the removal of the McKeesport
city operations in the 1930s. That division of the company hauled
more people any way you measured it than any other part of the system … more
overall, more per route mile, more per man hour but as soon as the city of
McKeesport said we are repaving the main drag down toward your carbarn and you
are going to pay your share, West Penn abandoned service. As an
aside, part of their base load included some Pittsburgh Railways substations …
Tylerdale, Canonsburg, Thompsonville, Charleroi etc. Seems to me
that in the 1946 Duquesne Light Strike and the 1936 flood, the interurbans and
Donora and the Washington city lines continued to run.
<BR><BR>Same thing happened when the borough of Youngwood had a paving project
in 1939 … the back line had to go.<BR><BR>Those two incidents convinced me
that if Connellsville had not redone Crawford Ave in the 1920s and gotten that
out of the way, had such a project come up in the 1930s it would have wiped
out the whole system because you could not have gotten to the
shops. <BR><BR><BR><BR>On May 21, 2014, at 11:43 AM, Dwight Long
wrote:<BR><BR>> <BR>> Ed<BR>> <BR>> Not only would the write down
have been deleterious to their stock values, it would in a much more practical
sense have removed their ability to run their power plants at an efficient
level. The railways provided the base load needed for efficient
operation of them. It was not until the boom times (in electricity
consumption, inter alia) after WW II that power demand in WP territory became
high enough to take up a sufficient amount of installed capacity to make
elimination of the rail demand an attractive thing.<BR>> <BR>> Also, I
doubt that the railways, on a true net/net cash basis, lost money at least
until the post war period. (individual lines were hopeless losers and got axed
early on.) Of course an enterprise cannot sustain itself in the long run
if it does not make a profit that includes not only positive cash flow but
also coverage of depreciation, amortization, taxes and interest. So you
are correct, the handwriting was on the proverbial wall not long after the
Great War, and I believe WP management was fully aware of that. The way
they executed gradual rundown of the transit assets was, IMHO, rather
clever.<BR>> <BR>> Dwight<BR>> <BR>> From: Edward H. Lybarger
<BR>> Sent: Tuesday, 20 May, 2014 14:38<BR>> To: 'Western PA Trolley
discussion' <BR>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Reading - Pgh. Press - March 1 thru
9.<BR>> Peak year for coal and coke was 1916. Clairton opened full
time in 1918.<BR>> Last year West Penn paid the bond interest out of the
fare box was 1920. It<BR>> all fits very precisely. The
terminals were joint ventures with the power<BR>> company, which eased the
burden a bit. The 830s were part of a $400,000<BR>> upgrade of AV
Street Ry and were needed to convert to one-man operation.<BR>> <BR>>
They didn't exactly know when they finished the system in 1914 what
loomed<BR>> on the horizon. And if they had dumped the railway
company as soon as it<BR>> became unprofitable in the fullest sense of the
word, it would have killed<BR>> the power company...the organization simply
couldn't have taken that big a<BR>> write-down and still been viable.
But since Railways owned (in 1916) 100%<BR>> of Power, it wasn't an issue
to subsidize one from the other.<BR>> <BR>> Ed<BR>> <BR>>
-----Original Message-----<BR>> From: <A
href="mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org">pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org</A><BR>>
[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org] On Behalf Of
Fred<BR>> Schneider<BR>> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 11:01 AM<BR>>
To: Western PA Trolley discussion<BR>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Reading - Pgh.
Press - March 1 thru 9.<BR>> <BR>> Yup. I chuckled two about
Mitchell making it one of the most modern<BR>> transportation companies in
the country. Maybe up to the early 1920s until<BR>> the public quit
riding. <BR>> <BR>> But we also know that the mines were
already fading in 1910 when West Penn<BR>> built their last
routes. If memory is working, it was about 1910 that the<BR>>
Clairton by-product recovery plant was built and that killed a lot of
the<BR>> beehive coke ovens along the West Penn.<BR>> <BR>> The last
investment was around 1927-1930 . the new terminals in<BR>> Connellsville,
Uniontown and Greensburg and the attempt to get the cars off<BR>> some of
the busiest downtown streets in Uniontown. The 800 series cars
for<BR>> the Allegheny Valley were quasi-modern, meaning sealed gear boxes
and 300<BR>> volt motors but the brake and control package was anything but
modern. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> On May 19, 2014, at 8:40 PM,
Dwight Long wrote:<BR>> <BR>>> <BR>>> Fred<BR>>>
<BR>>> I love the part about Mitchell helping to make West Penn one of
the most<BR>> modern transportation companies in the country!<BR>>>
<BR>>> I think Federal pre-emption of local ordnances came as a result
of lots of<BR>> similar things to the McKeesport fiasco.<BR>>>
<BR>>> Dwight<BR>>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>>>
From: Fred Schneider <BR>>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion
<BR>>> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 8:07 PM<BR>>> Subject: [PRCo]
Reading - Pgh. Press - March 1 thru 9.<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>>
The Pittsburgh and West Virginia Terminal fire .. look in March 22,
1946.<BR>> The fire happened over night Mar. 21-22.<BR>>>
<BR>>> Philadelphia Company wins delay<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>
<A
href="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=E1MbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3000%">http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=E1MbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3000%</A><BR>>
2C15764<BR>>> <BR>>> No page forward to page two, same
edition. Bottom of column one. Look<BR>> at that picture
at the bottom of the first column of<BR>>> the clothing department in
Albert J. Mannsmann's department store in East<BR>> Liberty.
Hard to believe a neighborhood department store when we don't<BR>> even
have them downtown in our cities any longer.<BR>>> <BR>>> The next
link is two columns over to the right . same page. I put this<BR>> in
for Ed Lybarger. AFL and CIO are battling over who should
represent the<BR>> employees at Champion Stores, the company store for
Pittsburgh Consolidation<BR>> Coal Company. So when "I owe my
soul to the company store" and it is shut<BR>> down and I have no money, do
I starve? Or do I stick my shot gun in<BR>> someone's face to
get money to eat? <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>> <A
href="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=E1MbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3639%">http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=E1MbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3639%</A><BR>>
2C25910<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>> <A
href="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FlMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2188%">http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FlMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2188%</A><BR>>
2C938893<BR>>> <BR>>> It is hard to believe how primitive aviation
was back then. This is<BR>> also for Ed but the rest of you
might get a kick out of "Moon Township<BR>> Airport Due to Get
Funds." <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>> <A
href="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=E1MbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3707%">http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=E1MbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3707%</A><BR>>
2C83272<BR>>> <BR>>> Personnel action at Pittsburgh
Railways<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>> <A
href="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=E1MbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3707%">http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=E1MbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3707%</A><BR>>
2C8327<BR>>> <BR>>> We won't give up harassing the power
company<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>> <A
href="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FFMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1579%">http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FFMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1579%</A><BR>>
2C291182<BR>>> <BR>>> The Pittsburgh, Shawmut and Northern Railway
was sold in March for 1.5<BR>> million dollars. Doesn't say so
here but the last trains ran about 27 days<BR>> later.<BR>>>
<BR>>> <BR>> <A
href="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FVMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3055%">http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FVMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3055%</A><BR>>
2C650711<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>> <A
href="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FlMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2557%">http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FlMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2557%</A><BR>>
2C905732<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>> <A
href="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GVMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1940%">http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GVMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1940%</A><BR>>
2C2206355<BR>>> <BR>>> Pittsburgh Railways unhappy that Montour
Bus Company wants to serve<BR>> Spring Hill<BR>>> <BR>>>
<BR>> <A
href="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FlMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2136%">http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FlMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2136%</A><BR>>
2C940320<BR>>> <BR>>> This link is about eight hurt on a
Greensburg-Blairsville bus when an oil<BR>> truck slid into it on the
Lincoln Highway west of Latrobe. But the story<BR>> to it's
right is a real winner too.<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>> <A
href="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FlMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5161%">http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FlMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5161%</A><BR>>
2C1032106<BR>>> <BR>>> Baldwin Locomotive Company shut down
temporarily because they could not<BR>> get steel. There were
peripheral stories that I did not send about coal<BR>> strikes and a lack
of gas that also affected steel mills. The second link<BR>>
comes a few days later when the United Mine Workers and John L. Lewis
lost<BR>> in the Supreme Court for breaching a contract with the
government. The<BR>> entire page of the paper in the
third link gives some idea about what was<BR>> going on in the coal fields
in 1947.<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>> <A
href="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FlMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1546%">http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FlMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1546%</A><BR>>
2C1062045<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>> <A
href="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GFMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5426%">http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GFMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5426%</A><BR>>
2C1466133<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>> <A
href="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GVMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1945%">http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GVMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1945%</A><BR>>
2C2013973<BR>>> <BR>>> This guy must have loved his
work. H. L. Mitchell of West Penn achieves<BR>> 45 years in
harness.<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>> <A
href="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FlMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5121%">http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FlMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5121%</A><BR>>
2C1062595<BR>>> <BR>>> Philadelphia Company's hearing is
recessed<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>> <A
href="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=F1MbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5770%">http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=F1MbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5770%</A><BR>>
2C1287583<BR>>> <BR>>> Same old - same old. I love
this. They had clean coal back in 1947<BR>> except that they
were unable to find it. Coal industry accused of<BR>>
attempting to sabotage Pittsburgh's smoke control program. I find
the<BR>> whole thing rather amusing. This is the only item I have
posted so far but<BR>> the papers have been filled with it. One
of the better items prior to this<BR>> was an editorial cartoon showing
Harrisburg aiming a canon at Pittsburgh's<BR>> attempts to clean up the
city because the coal companies were buying the<BR>>
legislators.<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>> <A
href="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=F1MbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6205%">http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=F1MbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6205%</A><BR>>
2C1324122 <BR>>> <BR>>> Sounds like this chap employed the
law firm of Dewey, Cheetum and Howe to<BR>> sue Pittsburgh
Railways. <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>> <A
href="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GFMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2250%">http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GFMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2250%</A><BR>>
2C1494659<BR>>> <BR>>> Fantastic article about all the rules
McKeesport inflicted on the B&O.<BR>> I can only wonder when the ICC or
the FRA told the city to go pound sand.<BR>> I know of similar cases where
cities were told that they had no control over<BR>> railroads.<BR>>>
<BR>>> <BR>> <A
href="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=G1MbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4302%">http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=G1MbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4302%</A><BR>>
2C2502871<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>>
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