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<DIV><FONT size=4>Ed</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>This sounds as if a 15 year equipment trust, or an analog
thereof, was used to cover the cars. The timing fits. I suppose
Railways was making the (internal) required payments to Securities after 1937,
as AVSR presumably, if it still existed as a corporation, would have been
without income to make the payments. Also the cars were in Railways
possession.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>You are quite right that West Penn (corporate) did not
suddenly cast Wheeling Traction adrift. In addition to trying to get the
bonds restructured, they held several public meetings to attempt to secure a
local takeover of the company and its debt. The late W.J.B. Gwinn attended
some, perhaps all, of these meetings. Ultimately they resulted in the
employees buying the property out of bankruptcy as Co-Op. The amount they
paid for it was a paltry sum, however, and doubtlessly the bondholders would
have done far better in the end by making WP “a deal they could not
refuse.”</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Dwight</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=trams2@comcast.net
href="mailto:trams2@comcast.net">Edward H. Lybarger</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, 23 May, 2014 08:16</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org
href="mailto:pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">'Western PA Trolley
discussion'</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PRCo] Reading - Pgh. Press - March 1 thru
9.</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>The
Oakdale-McDonald abandonment was precipitated by a highway project.<BR><BR>West
Penn Securities Department, Inc. sold the twelve 830-cars to West
Penn<BR>Railways in 1944 for $1000 each...their residual value.<BR><BR>In
Wheeling, they tried to get the bondholders to restructure, but got
few<BR>takers. It wasn't just that they defaulted with no
notice.<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From:
pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org<BR>[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org]
On Behalf Of Fred<BR>Schneider<BR>Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 9:23 PM<BR>To:
Western PA Trolley discussion<BR>Subject: Re: [PRCo] Reading - Pgh. Press -
March 1 thru 9.<BR><BR>Well, we know the reason for the demise of the Allegheny
Valley St. Ry.,<BR>with its seven-year-old cars was repaving and widening route
28 up the<BR>valley. I think it is also reasonably well known that,
since the Allegheny<BR>Valley Street Railway did not have a dividend stream from
the power company<BR>(Allegheny Power) like the Coke Region did, management had
to protect its<BR>investment in the new cars in another way. They
would not risk having the<BR>railway buy them and then having the railway go
broke. So they (cars<BR>831-842) were put into the ownership of West
Penn Securities Corporation<BR>until they were paid off and then they were sold
to the West Penn Railways<BR>for a nominal amount. I never ceased to
be amazed that, unlike the<BR>management of todays politically affiliated
transit authorities, West Penn's<BR>management (and most other private company
managers) were anything but<BR>mentally challenged. <BR><BR>I think there
was also a bridge project that killed one of the two other up<BR>river
(Leechburg-Apollo or Kittanning-Ford City) lines but I am not sure.<BR>Remember
that they both lasted, unmodernized with 30+ year old Stephenson<BR>cars until
about 1936. One of those was very heavily damaged in the
'36<BR>flood. <BR><BR>The only other one was Oakdale -
McDonald. How do you justify keeping<BR>something in the middle of
no where, unconnected with anything, running<BR>beyond 1920 other than we have
not paid it off yet??? <BR><BR>Wheeling . that we know was a case of the
bonds came due.<BR><BR><BR><BR>On May 21, 2014, at 4:48 PM, Dwight Long
wrote:<BR><BR>> <BR>> Fred<BR>> <BR>> I believe that during the 1946
strike the Washington line operated only<BR>between Washington and
Canonsburg. I don't know what the status of<BR>Charleroi was, but if it is
true that WP supplied power to non-Allegheny<BR>County subs, they could have run
between Elco loop in Roscoe and Riverview<BR>loop, or between Charleroi and
Roscoe, or between Charleroi and Riverview.<BR>The Donora line could have run
between Riverview and Donora. But I don't<BR>know if they did. Some
research into the archives at Arden would no doubt<BR>disclose the
answer.<BR>> <BR>> Did paving projects also do in the outlying small
operations? (Leave<BR>Wheeling Traction and M-WP out of this for the
moment). I'm sure WP looked<BR>at the net present value of the estimated
income streams if rail operations<BR>were continued, and compared this with the
capital outlay required for the<BR>repaving. (obviously there were other
issues to consider, but that is a<BR>simplistic way of looking at it).
They MIGHT have put up the bucks for<BR>Crawford Avenue with consideration of
all the factors. Or they might not<BR>have. They could have
continued to operate south of Connellsville without<BR>Crawford Avenue, and that
might have used enough power for their purposes in<BR>load balancing. I
don't know. Certainly the fact that the issue never<BR>arose relegates all
this to the area of supposition---------------------<BR>> <BR>>
Dwight<BR>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: Fred
Schneider <BR>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion <BR>> Sent:
Wednesday, May 21, 2014 1:18 PM<BR>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Reading - Pgh.
Press - March 1 thru 9.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I'll agree that there
was no residential base load as we know it today .<BR>nothing but 25 or 40 watt
light bulbs. We ironed or clothes by heating the<BR>iron on the
kitchen stove. Furnaces were coal and often ductless . just
a<BR>whole in the floor over the furnace all the way to the second floor so
there<BR>was no fan load. Refrigerator? Well, GE began making
them in 1930 and<BR>before that we used ice boxes although from the teens onward
the commercial<BR>ice plants were often electrically powered instead of steam
powered. <BR>> <BR>> What was the industrial base
load? What did mining use? What did the<BR>glass works
and foundries and steel mills use? What about the local
ice<BR>plants to make block ice for your ice boxes . they needed to run some
pretty<BR>heavy ammonia compressors. And West Penn Power wasn't simply the
railways'<BR>territory, it included Armstrong County, Washington County, some of
the<BR>fringes of Allegheny County, Greene County<BR>> <BR>> How
fragile the railways were was impressed on me, Dwight, by the removal<BR>of the
McKeesport city operations in the 1930s. That division of
the<BR>company hauled more people any way you measured it than any other part
of<BR>the system . more overall, more per route mile, more per man hour but
as<BR>soon as the city of McKeesport said we are repaving the main drag
down<BR>toward your carbarn and you are going to pay your share, West Penn
abandoned<BR>service. As an aside, part of their base load included
some Pittsburgh<BR>Railways substations . Tylerdale, Canonsburg, Thompsonville,
Charleroi etc.<BR>Seems to me that in the 1946 Duquesne Light Strike and the
1936 flood, the<BR>interurbans and Donora and the Washington city lines
continued to run. <BR>> <BR>> Same thing happened when
the borough of Youngwood had a paving project in<BR>1939 . the back line had to
go.<BR>> <BR>> Those two incidents convinced me that if
Connellsville had not redone<BR>Crawford Ave in the 1920s and gotten that out of
the way, had such a project<BR>come up in the 1930s it would have wiped out the
whole system because you<BR>could not have gotten to the shops.
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> On May 21, 2014, at 11:43 AM, Dwight
Long wrote:<BR>> <BR>>> <BR>>> Ed<BR>>> <BR>>> Not
only would the write down have been deleterious to their stock<BR>values, it
would in a much more practical sense have removed their ability<BR>to run their
power plants at an efficient level. The railways provided the<BR>base load
needed for efficient operation of them. It was not until the boom<BR>times
(in electricity consumption, inter alia) after WW II that power demand<BR>in WP
territory became high enough to take up a sufficient amount of<BR>installed
capacity to make elimination of the rail demand an
attractive<BR>thing.<BR>>> <BR>>> Also, I doubt that the railways,
on a true net/net cash basis, lost money<BR>at least until the post war period.
(individual lines were hopeless losers<BR>and got axed early on.) Of
course an enterprise cannot sustain itself in<BR>the long run if it does not
make a profit that includes not only positive<BR>cash flow but also coverage of
depreciation, amortization, taxes and<BR>interest. So you are correct, the
handwriting was on the proverbial wall<BR>not long after the Great War, and I
believe WP management was fully aware of<BR>that. The way they executed
gradual rundown of the transit assets was,<BR>IMHO, rather clever.<BR>>>
<BR>>> Dwight<BR>>> <BR>>> From: Edward H. Lybarger
<BR>>> Sent: Tuesday, 20 May, 2014 14:38<BR>>> To: 'Western PA
Trolley discussion' <BR>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Reading - Pgh. Press -
March 1 thru 9.<BR>>> Peak year for coal and coke was 1916. Clairton
opened full time in 1918.<BR>>> Last year West Penn paid the bond interest
out of the fare box was 1920.<BR>It<BR>>> all fits very precisely.
The terminals were joint ventures with the<BR>power<BR>>> company, which
eased the burden a bit. The 830s were part of a $400,000<BR>>>
upgrade of AV Street Ry and were needed to convert to one-man
operation.<BR>>> <BR>>> They didn't exactly know when they finished
the system in 1914 what<BR>loomed<BR>>> on the horizon. And if they
had dumped the railway company as soon as it<BR>>> became unprofitable in
the fullest sense of the word, it would have<BR>killed<BR>>> the power
company...the organization simply couldn't have taken that big<BR>a<BR>>>
write-down and still been viable. But since Railways owned (in
1916)<BR>100%<BR>>> of Power, it wasn't an issue to subsidize one from the
other.<BR>>> <BR>>> Ed<BR>>> <BR>>> -----Original
Message-----<BR>>> From:
pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org<BR>>>
[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounces@mailman.dementix.org] On Behalf
Of<BR>Fred<BR>>> Schneider<BR>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 11:01
AM<BR>>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion<BR>>> Subject: Re: [PRCo]
Reading - Pgh. Press - March 1 thru 9.<BR>>> <BR>>> Yup.
I chuckled two about Mitchell making it one of the most modern<BR>>>
transportation companies in the country. Maybe up to the early
1920s<BR>until<BR>>> the public quit riding. <BR>>>
<BR>>> But we also know that the mines were already fading in 1910 when
West<BR>Penn<BR>>> built their last routes. If memory is
working, it was about 1910 that<BR>the<BR>>> Clairton by-product recovery
plant was built and that killed a lot of the<BR>>> beehive coke ovens
along the West Penn.<BR>>> <BR>>> The last investment was around
1927-1930 . the new terminals in<BR>>> Connellsville, Uniontown and
Greensburg and the attempt to get the cars<BR>off<BR>>> some of the
busiest downtown streets in Uniontown. The 800 series
cars<BR>for<BR>>> the Allegheny Valley were quasi-modern, meaning sealed
gear boxes and 300<BR>>> volt motors but the brake and control package was
anything but modern. <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> On May
19, 2014, at 8:40 PM, Dwight Long wrote:<BR>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>> Fred<BR>>>> <BR>>>> I love the part about
Mitchell helping to make West Penn one of the most<BR>>> modern
transportation companies in the country!<BR>>>> <BR>>>> I
think Federal pre-emption of local ordnances came as a result of
lots<BR>of<BR>>> similar things to the McKeesport fiasco.<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> Dwight<BR>>>> ----- Original Message -----
<BR>>>> From: Fred Schneider <BR>>>> To: Western PA Trolley
discussion <BR>>>> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 8:07 PM<BR>>>>
Subject: [PRCo] Reading - Pgh. Press - March 1 thru 9.<BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>> The Pittsburgh and West Virginia Terminal fire
.. look in March 22,<BR>1946.<BR>>> The fire happened over night Mar.
21-22.<BR>>>> <BR>>>> Philadelphia Company wins
delay<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>><BR>http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=E1MbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3000%<BR>>>
2C15764<BR>>>> <BR>>>> No page forward to page two, same
edition. Bottom of column one. Look<BR>>> at that
picture at the bottom of the first column of<BR>>>> the clothing
department in Albert J. Mannsmann's department store in<BR>East<BR>>>
Liberty. Hard to believe a neighborhood department store when we
don't<BR>>> even have them downtown in our cities any
longer.<BR>>>> <BR>>>> The next link is two columns over to
the right . same page. I put this<BR>>> in for Ed
Lybarger. AFL and CIO are battling over who should
represent<BR>the<BR>>> employees at Champion Stores, the company store for
Pittsburgh<BR>Consolidation<BR>>> Coal Company. So when "I owe
my soul to the company store" and it is<BR>shut<BR>>> down and I have no
money, do I starve? Or do I stick my shot gun in<BR>>>
someone's face to get money to eat? <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>><BR>http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=E1MbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3639%<BR>>>
2C25910<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>><BR>http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FlMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2188%<BR>>>
2C938893<BR>>>> <BR>>>> It is hard to believe how primitive
aviation was back then. This is<BR>>> also for Ed but the rest
of you might get a kick out of "Moon Township<BR>>> Airport Due to Get
Funds." <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>><BR>http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=E1MbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3707%<BR>>>
2C83272<BR>>>> <BR>>>> Personnel action at Pittsburgh
Railways<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>><BR>http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=E1MbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3707%<BR>>>
2C8327<BR>>>> <BR>>>> We won't give up harassing the power
company<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>><BR>http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FFMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1579%<BR>>>
2C291182<BR>>>> <BR>>>> The Pittsburgh, Shawmut and Northern
Railway was sold in March for 1.5<BR>>> million dollars.
Doesn't say so here but the last trains ran about 27<BR>days<BR>>>
later.<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>><BR>http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FVMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3055%<BR>>>
2C650711<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>><BR>http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FlMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2557%<BR>>>
2C905732<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>><BR>http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GVMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1940%<BR>>>
2C2206355<BR>>>> <BR>>>> Pittsburgh Railways unhappy that
Montour Bus Company wants to serve<BR>>> Spring Hill<BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
<BR>>><BR>http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FlMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2136%<BR>>>
2C940320<BR>>>> <BR>>>> This link is about eight hurt on a
Greensburg-Blairsville bus when an<BR>oil<BR>>> truck slid into it on the
Lincoln Highway west of Latrobe. But the<BR>story<BR>>> to
it's right is a real winner too.<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>><BR>http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FlMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5161%<BR>>>
2C1032106<BR>>>> <BR>>>> Baldwin Locomotive Company shut down
temporarily because they could not<BR>>> get steel. There were
peripheral stories that I did not send about coal<BR>>> strikes and a lack
of gas that also affected steel mills. The
second<BR>link<BR>>> comes a few days later when the United Mine Workers
and John L. Lewis<BR>lost<BR>>> in the Supreme Court for breaching a
contract with the government. The<BR>>> entire page of
the paper in the third link gives some idea about what was<BR>>> going on
in the coal fields in 1947.<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>><BR>http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FlMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1546%<BR>>>
2C1062045<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>><BR>http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GFMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5426%<BR>>>
2C1466133<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>><BR>http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GVMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1945%<BR>>>
2C2013973<BR>>>> <BR>>>> This guy must have loved his
work. H. L. Mitchell of West Penn<BR>achieves<BR>>> 45 years
in harness.<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>><BR>http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=FlMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5121%<BR>>>
2C1062595<BR>>>> <BR>>>> Philadelphia Company's hearing is
recessed<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>><BR>http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=F1MbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5770%<BR>>>
2C1287583<BR>>>> <BR>>>> Same old - same old. I
love this. They had clean coal back in 1947<BR>>> except that
they were unable to find it. Coal industry accused of<BR>>>
attempting to sabotage Pittsburgh's smoke control program. I find
the<BR>>> whole thing rather amusing. This is the only item I have
posted so far<BR>but<BR>>> the papers have been filled with
it. One of the better items prior to<BR>this<BR>>> was an
editorial cartoon showing Harrisburg aiming a canon
at<BR>Pittsburgh's<BR>>> attempts to clean up the city because the coal
companies were buying the<BR>>> legislators.<BR>>>>
<BR>>>>
<BR>>><BR>http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=F1MbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6205%<BR>>>
2C1324122 <BR>>>> <BR>>>> Sounds like this chap employed
the law firm of Dewey, Cheetum and Howe<BR>to<BR>>> sue Pittsburgh
Railways. <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>><BR>http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GFMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2250%<BR>>>
2C1494659<BR>>>> <BR>>>> Fantastic article about all the rules
McKeesport inflicted on the B&O.<BR>>> I can only wonder when the ICC
or the FRA told the city to go pound sand.<BR>>> I know of similar cases
where cities were told that they had no control<BR>over<BR>>>
railroads.<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>><BR>http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=G1MbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1kwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4302%<BR>>>
2C2502871<BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>> <BR>>>>
<BR>>>> <BR>>>>
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