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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">On 2014.09.04-Thur 11.12-AM, Jim Holland
wrote:<br>
<br>
Hi, Chris! <br>
<br>
I believe we discussed this some time back but I can not find
details -- other computer crashed and information may be on it.
<br>
<br>
Schedules on the 3-Interurbans the day after Washington service
ended 30-Aug-1953 reveal 10-minute headway through Overbrook
mid-day. Library and Drake cars had 20-min-headway mid-day;
Shannon cars Only Operated rush hours. (Those schedules are
attached making it a double-post for the lisp -- Please See
PSs!) <br>
<br>
Schedule_35-36-37_19530830_1of2.jpg <br>
<br>
Schedule_35-36-37_19530830_2of2.jpg <br>
<br>
Thus it stands to reason when the Char and Wash Interurbans
ceased operations in tandem and operated 15-min-apart through
Overbrook (late 1950s, early 1951-forward) 15-min between Only
Char and Wash cars was insufficient to meet demand. As I
Remember service through Overbrook after tandem Interurban
operations ceased was every 7-8-min each direction "Mid-Day,
8-cars an hour." Thus Shannon and West Library cars (37/L)
split the headway between the Char and Wash Interurbans. (Were
schedules cut to the "Half-Minute?" We still had those in the
1970s on San Fran Crisco Muni!) <br>
<br>
Using "(37/L)" for Shannon//WLibrary cars, a SB schedule from
Pgh (approx late 1950 into early-1953) might look something like
this -- ALL cars running local--making all stops: <br>
<br>
00--Char <br>
07--(37/L) <br>
15--Wash <br>
22--(37/L) <br>
30--Char <br>
37--(37/L) <br>
45--Wash <br>
52--(37/L) </blockquote>
<br>
On Thu Sep 4 12:45:39 EDT 2014, Dwight Long dwightlong at
verizon.net wrote<br>
<br>
Here is the story of Simmons Loop and its opening to service. The
loop WAS constructed prior to the end of service on Rt. C early
Sunday morning 28 June 1953. It was built such that the curve out
of the loop leading to the northbound main line was laid UNDER the
southbound main track. Just a few hours were needed later that
Sunday for crews to cut the southbound main and put the loop into
use.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi, Dwight!<br>
<br>
SIX_Attachments Included.<br>
<br>
Simmons loop was built at grade with a grade crossing (4-crossing
frogs) of the curve and SB main. Whether or not the northbound main
had a trail switch is not known but is suspected. This allows
uninterrupted operation (except very minor delays of installation);
the unneeded hardware can be removed any time after Charleroi ceases
operations----NO rush! About a decade ago a photo was posted here
showing the crossing -- the photographer was south looking north. I
believe Mark in Florida posted the photo. I have searched the lisp
photo files:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/">http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/</a><br>
...using: "Char; prw; loop; track; sim" each of them separately to
see if I could find the photo which I could not. Maybe others shall
be more successful.<br>
<br>
Ed may have track diagrams at PTM which reveal this construction. I
do not understand construction underneath both SB and NB main tracks
-- this would be far more work than necessary and result in bending
rail into a grade. Railways generally had old hardware on hand
(removed from other locations but still usable) for such purposes.
Removal of crossing (along with trail point//mate) allow
installation of larger curved section on new loop without excess
joints.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"> As to the question of when Rt. 37 became
rush hour only, the reference I was seeking is in ERA Electric
Railroads No. 20, published in July 1952, which was authored by
John Baxter. He states: “A local service sharing the trackage
out of Pittsburgh with the interurbans began operation to Fair
Haven (Frederick Street) in 1916, extended later to Shannon, then
to Library in 1924. Restrictions in riding interurbans locally in
this area became effective from time to time from 1916 to the fall
of 1951 when Route 37-Shannon service was eliminated during the
off peak hours.” After that rush hour interurbans carried a small
sign in the front window stating something like “first stop
Frederick Street” (I don’t recall the exact wording). Operators
were supposed to use the roll signs for the route WITHOUT the
Shannon prefix, i.e. “Charleroi” instead of “Shannon-Charleroi,”
but human nature being what it is I have no idea how often this
nicety was observed. More reliance, I assume, was placed upon the
normals’ knowing the drill and staying off the interurbans in rush
hours if they were destined to points short of Frederick Street.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Here is a portion of what Chris wrote in response to my question
quoted above. He indicates the collection of schedules ceases with
1949. His information is from March-1953 Schedules which confirm
what I wrote::: Castle Shannon to downtown and return to Castle
Shannon was every 7-8+minutes with Char and Wash Interurbans 15-min
apart and "Local" service (37/L) centered between C & W!:::<br>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>On 2014-09-04 14:36, CWalker wrote:<br>
<br>
March, 1953 – Art Ellis saved a set of company schedules before
the system began to be pared down with the June operator “pick.”<br>
<br>
In 1953, they were operating a full compliment of Shannon cars
intermingled with the W and C runs – so, as you point out,
mid-day service consisted of a car every 7 – 8 minutes between
Shannon and Downtown. That may have been the case from 1951 on;
if I had to guess, I would say so. The weekend locals were
largely extended to Library as before. On Saturdays, the Library
trips operated a 30 minute headway most of the day, and were
interlined with 37 trips. In other words, the car ran into town
as Route L and left the city as Route 37. This provided a 15
minute local service between Castle Shannon and the city in
addition to the 15 minute interurbans. Sundays, the Library cars
ran every 15 minutes, again providing a combined 7 – 8 minute
over the shared trackage.<br>
<br>
The August 30 timetable shows the extent of the service after
the interurbans were cut. To some extent, scheduling was
simplified, especially for the Library cars which previously had
to be scheduled out of West Library Loop in “time windows” to
avoid fouling up the signals for the Charleroi runs (or getting
stuck in the loop and behind schedule).<br>
<br>
There’s more, I’m sure – I’ll do a little more looking once I
get home. Schedules tell a lot about the operation, and are a
great resource for understanding things!<br>
<br>
Chris<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
I would suspect Ed Lybarger already knows this or knows of Chris
Walker's work; he may be able to confirm and enlarge upon the
topic. The above does not completely resolve the matter as this is
data for 1953, but it does confirm what I mentioned for this time
period with logic strongly suggesting 8-cars an hour each way
through Overbrook in 1951 instead of just 4-cars. With 6-cars each
direction in Sept-1953, an increase of 50% over alleged 4-cars in
1951, does not seem logical. Anything IS possible, but that does
not seem probable. Ridership was dropping by 1953 as post-war
economy was improving with returning vets finding enough money to
buy that Family car!<br>
<br>
The 1952 "Headlights" special on the PRCo Interurban system is
widely owned and respected by many of us. It is a Very Good Source
of information but not infallible as has been discovered here over
the last decade -- it is good information until original PRCo
documents are discovered to confirm it or deny it.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"> The same reference confirms that the
diversionary route for the interurbans was indeed Rt. 38 on West
Liberty Avenue and not through Beechview on Rt. 42 as I had
remembered.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<br>
A portion of a 1961-schedule attached reveals a couple Drake trips
that returned to the Barn over the 38-Mt.Lebanon. I was surprized
to see that; it was rarely listed in the schedules. Library and
Shannon cars also did this on a very regular basis but they are not
so listed. It was more than a half-dozen cars.<br>
<br>
Harold Geissenheimer was a lisp member -- he gave details of County
Fair Service at South Park post WW2 where ALL SB interurbans used
the 38-Mt.Lebanon to Castle Shannon, then regular route. As Fair
service was about every minute, 38A service was busted. ALL NB
Interurban service used Overbrook. Signal masts north of Mesta were
covered; all operated on sight with many route inspectors at key
points. A DE shuttle using the SB track between Oak and Castle
Shannon provided 'simulated' OB // SB traffic. A series of attached
photos reveal this.<br>
<br>
WE_LOOK_Forward to seeing some of your 38-Mt.Lebanon photos just
before "abandonment!" You are getting some nice photos here!<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
Jim<br>
<br>
Schedule_36-Weekday_19610430_2of2_0600_020.jpg<br>
<br>
3801_35+OB_DawnJct_19470901_CJD_018.jpg -- Beautiful photo --
SLCCo Charleroi Interurban OB on 38-Mt.Lebanon<br>
<br>
4913_35+OB_DawnRampWLibertyAve_19470901_CJD_021.jpg<br>
<br>
3711_36+OB_DawnRampWLibertyAve_19470901_CJD_023.jpg<br>
<br>
3711_36+IB_4322_37+OB_Oak_19470901_CJD_021.jpg<br>
<br>
3801_SouthParkServiceDescription_19470901_CJD_025.jpg<br>
<br>
<b><br>
<br>
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