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<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">Charleroi car house was closed a few weeks
(don't have the exact date here) before the line was abandoned south of
Simmons. All service was then operated out of the Interurban barn at
Tunnel. As to the 3800 which languished there for a long time, I have seen
that car. It is my understanding that it was towed to Ingram some time in
1952, early 1952, for scrapping. It was not there in late 1952 when WP 832
was moved to Charleroi and stored there until May 1953. I don't know when
the other equipment was moved, but no doubt prior to or right after the barn
closed.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">There is another possibility that neither one
of us has mentioned heretofore and that is that the Simmons loop was already
constructed WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE PIECE WHERE THE SOUTHBOUND MAIN
WAS, and possibly where the loop track intersected the northbound
main. These pieces could have been fabricated and on site, so that after
service on Rt. C ceased, all that would have had to be done was to remove rail
at one or two locations (either with the gas wrench or by unbolting rail
sections) and insert and bolt or weld in the missing pieces. This could
have been done, with a large enough crew, very quickly and would have been the
least expensive way to accomplish inauguration of Simmons loop.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">Unless, and I doubt this was true, the loop
were made with a PERFECT 90 DEGREE INTERSECTION of the loop track with the
southbound main, a SPECIALLY-CONSTRUCTED set of frogs would have had to be
fabricated according to the respective angles. That would have been
expensive. Drake loop was, as you say, a reuse of the Sewickley loop, but
Drake was all new work which could be done without the impact of traffic, as the
Walthers wye sufficed til it was done. Not at all comparable to the
situation at Simmons.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">Tylerdale CH was also closed before the end of
service on the W line, so I don't know what car would have been the last one out
of there. No doubt, however, it would have been before the end of revenue
service, not before that. The last passenger cars on Rt. W south of
Ruthfred were in March 1954 but none of them went as far south as Tylerdale
CH. WP 832 went the furthest south but it turned at a point short of
Tylerdale. The W line was scrapped (OHL and track) using rubber-tired
vehicles--I have fots of this--and I ASSUME C line was done in same
way.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">Sorry I will not see you on Friday, but I will
try to find what I can in the archives and will report accordingly.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Century Gothic">Dwight</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=PRCoPCC@p-r-co.com href="mailto:PRCoPCC@p-r-co.com">Holland, James
B.</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org
href="mailto:pittsburgh-railways@mailman.dementix.org">1711_PRCo_WP_JTC</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 10, 2014 1:50
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [PRCo] Simmons Loop,
June-July-1953</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>>> On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 6:10 AM, Holland, James B.
<PRCoPCC at <BR>>> p-r-co.com> wrote:<BR>>><BR>>>
....... About a decade ago a photo was posted here showing the <BR>>>
crossing -- the photographer was south looking north. I believe Mark
<BR>>> in Florida posted the photo. I have searched the lisp photo
files:<BR>>> <A
href="http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/">http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/</A><BR>>>
...using: "Char; prw; loop; track; sim" each of them separately to
<BR>>> see if I could find the photo which I could not. Maybe
others shall <BR>>> be more successful.<BR>><BR>><BR>> On Mon
Sep 8 06:57:37 EDT 2014, D Brashear shadow at dementix.org
wrote<BR>><BR>> Jim, right idea but no picture. Mark [McGuire]
said:<BR>><BR>> "There is a shot on page 127
(bottom) in Leroy King's Vol. IV of a<BR>> 1700 car
at Simmons taken from the abandoned Charleroi
trackage<BR>> looking north. Now I just need to
find something similar but<BR>> looking south into
the abandoned trackage. I have an old Bill<BR>>
Gwinn contact print of 4398 on a fantrip looking south but it
is<BR>> very blurry."<BR>><BR><BR>Ahhhhhhh --
list server Just Back Up and Online And Hopefully running
<BR>.......<BR><BR>Thank You Mark and Daria! -- The book-photo IS fuzzy but NB
Charleroi <BR>tangent/'straight' rails clearly indicate guard rails whether or
not the <BR>point/mate are still in place. Guard rails would not be on a
tangent at <BR>this location without special work. The picture I am
looking for <BR>clearly shows the crossing frogs in the loop/SB track to
Charleroi, a <BR>prw photo similar view of book. Such a crossing is "Not
New <BR>Fabrication" but reclaimed from elsewhere on PRCo (Sewickley loop
became <BR>Drake loop--Undt Udders!)++ Here is another pic of elusive
1701 at <BR>Simmons (possibly from Mark) looking the other direction.
But like <BR>others, it does not tell us anything:<BR>1701_Simmons.jpg -- URL
below<BR><BR> ++ "....... Railways generally had
old hardware on hand (removed<BR> from other locations but
still usable) for such purposes. Removal of<BR> crossing
(along with trail point//mate) allow installation of
larger<BR> curved section on new loop without excess
joints."<BR> <A
href="http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/2014-September/033337.html">http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/2014-September/033337.html</A><BR><BR><BR>We
can take a lesson from the "wording" about Washington Closure which <BR>is in
Noah's ArkIves for the list: "PRCo PCC Interurban 1711 was the <BR>last
REVENUE run from Washington to Pgh." It was NOT the last car out <BR>of
Tylerdale.<BR><BR>Back to Charleroi: While service was terminated, much
is needed to <BR>bring "Real Closure" to the line which includes moving both
Spare <BR>Revenue cars (PCCs, DE-Low-Floor cars, possibly one 3800-series car
<BR>which remained at least beyond end of service for said vehicles If Not
<BR>to the very end of Charleroi) and "M" equipment to other locations on
<BR>PRCo property as well as removal of overhead for scrap value then
<BR>dismantling the tracks. There is much more to closing out operations
<BR>with real estate (barn) etc. Thus the turnout in the NB track to
allow <BR>equipment from Charleroi to move to Pgh and work equipment to do
what it <BR>has to do down there.<BR><BR>NO! The rwy would not move
spares ahead of closure. Operation <BR>continues as usual until after
closure; one can not predict if car <BR>changes shall not be necessary on
final runs. (As for Washington, the <BR>city lines ended some weeks
ahead of the interurban so those cars could <BR>be moved out once they are not
needed.)<BR><BR>The 4398 would be almost 2+years after Char closure, too late
for our needs.<BR>The following photos are URLs at the bottom of the email
from the <BR>following charter:<BR>1955.06.12
4398 PRCo Monongahela Incline, 57, 32, 36,
35, 38A, <BR>38, 42, 40, 48, 49, 22, 4, 5, 21, 8, 10, 15, 13, 6,
18.<BR>4398SimmonsLoop-01_19550612.jpg -- already posted as
BIN<BR><BR>4398SimmonsLoop-02_19550612.jpg -- already posted as
BIN<BR><BR>4398_36-Loop_19550612_1600.jpg<BR><BR>This email in 'draft' when
Daria posted to change BIN to JPG. You did <BR>post these photos to list
2003-10-28 -- or that is date I downloaded <BR>it. So now you have
double copies of the photos; sell the extra one on <BR>ebay!<BR><BR>--
<BR>*Jim*<BR><BR>PS-------I had intended being at PTM Archives on Friday and
Sat morn as <BR>well (12-13-Sept), but plans have changed and that shall be
rescheduled <BR>later in the month. I have rather active
"schedule//timetable" into <BR>early
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