From x779 at webtv.net Sat Sep 12 12:03:05 2009 From: x779 at webtv.net (Louis Rugani) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 16:03:05 GMT Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Public Hearings this week; KRM Line Newsletter Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Lynde, Eric D. Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:26 AM To: KRM Online Subject: CORRECTION: Public Hearings for Draft Environmental Impact Statement Announced and Fourth Kenosha-Racine-Milwaukee (KRM) Commuter Link Newsletter Available Subject: CORRECTION to Public Hearings for Draft Environmental Impact Statement Announced and Fourth Kenosha-Racine-Milwaukee (KRM) Commuter Link Newsletter Available In the previous email, a mistake was made in listing the order of next week's hearing locations. The correct dates and locations for the hearings are September 14 in Racine, September 15 in Kenosha, and September 16 in Milwaukee. The information on the hearings provided on the website (www.KRMonline.org) and the most recent newsletter (http://www.sewrpc.org/KRMonline/newsletters.shtm) is correct. We apologize for the inconvenience, and hope that you will be able to attend one of the hearings. You are being sent this message because you have requested to be notified via e-mail about upcoming public meetings for the KRM Commuter Link project. If you no longer wish to receive these notifications, please let us know with a reply to this e-mail. -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Desc: image001.jpg -- Size: 10k (10569 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/image001.jpg From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Sun Sep 13 11:04:48 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 08:04:48 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Test References: Message-ID: <5640F3ED45F54BC1BF334EAAB235A773@KTJosephson> -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 67k (69358 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/tm0065.jpg From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Sun Sep 13 11:10:27 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 08:10:27 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Attachments References: <5640F3ED45F54BC1BF334EAAB235A773@KTJosephson> Message-ID: <47DBEE95D8C64EB8A8806C73FAC32684@KTJosephson> Our list's host, Derrick Brashear, has given us the ability to attach images to our messages. The images are removed from message and stored at an URL for your viewing pleasure. Just click on the link. Thanks, Derrick! K. -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 106k (108631 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/mrt66ga.jpg From DLeistikow at webtv.net Sun Sep 13 13:47:48 2009 From: DLeistikow at webtv.net (Don L. Leistikow) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 12:47:48 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Test In-Reply-To: "Ken and Tracie" 's message of Sun, 13 Sep 2009 08:04:48 -0700 Message-ID: <7524-4AAD3044-1602@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> Ken: Great photo ... location is e-o-l Route 19 on Atkinson at Teutonia. I've seen several photos at that location but most were closeups of the car. I like this one showing the intersection and the billboards on Atkinson, for its atmosphere. Most trolley photographers, buddied up, when out on a photoshoot so, I expect that comparisons with other photos may get a closeup which would show the car number. The date of the photo might then be established, also. Don L From DLeistikow at webtv.net Sun Sep 13 13:58:30 2009 From: DLeistikow at webtv.net (Don L. Leistikow) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 12:58:30 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Attachments In-Reply-To: "Ken and Tracie" 's message of Sun, 13 Sep 2009 08:10:27 -0700 Message-ID: <7521-4AAD32C6-3749@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> Ken: Another great photo ... this is Speedrail Car 66, inbound about to enter Clybourn Street at the end/beginning of the private right of way between 7th and 8th Streets. Again, no date is shown. Don L. From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Sun Sep 13 14:29:52 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:29:52 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Now This References: <7521-4AAD32C6-3749@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <1234D1BCF4134EF7933C06A58737F202@KTJosephson> -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 29k (30447 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/beforeafter001.jpg From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Sun Sep 13 14:39:08 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:39:08 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] The "Devil's Teapot" References: <7521-4AAD32C6-3749@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <4B1136BED93248E088BD1897E775C5A1@KTJosephson> -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 150k (154236 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/devilsteapot003.jpg From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Sun Sep 13 14:28:06 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:28:06 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Now for the Fun Stuff! References: <7521-4AAD32C6-3749@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <0F5DA04D659C45ADAB8400BD1D967AE2@KTJosephson> -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 67k (69142 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/mnbeforeafter01.jpg From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Sun Sep 13 14:32:46 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:32:46 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] How 'bout the Village? References: <7521-4AAD32C6-3749@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <45AC0F20AC0E4E21A665E6AF8322E399@KTJosephson> -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 74k (76689 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/tosa001a.jpg From DLeistikow at webtv.net Sun Sep 13 22:28:21 2009 From: DLeistikow at webtv.net (Don L. Leistikow) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 21:28:21 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: The "Devil's Teapot" In-Reply-To: "Ken and Tracie" 's message of Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:39:08 -0700 Message-ID: <7531-4AADAA45-61@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> Ken: That's an interesting photo of an 1100 at the site of the Muskego Washout, better known as the Devil's Tea Pot. Somewhere, I have an article which contains many of the details along with some photographs, the exception being that this is the first time that I have seen the photo which you posted. While the car is indistinguishable on my 'webber', I would really appreciate a photographic copy of it. Reason being that the information that I have says something about a car isolated between the washout and East Troy. So, that car would back up in one direction or the other to accomodate passengers who, for the duration of the impediment, had to walk around it, to complete a journey in either direction. The outbound car from Milwaukee would reverse direction of the car at the Muskego wye. For the record, all Rapid Transit 1100's were single ended with the exception of the 1102, 1103 and 1104, which had controls at both ends, walkover seats and air operated passenger doors. Anyway, I shall look up and copy the article, which also contains the date of the incident. Will then forward same on to you. Rebuilt MN cars were not ready for service until sometime in 1931. Don L. From DLeistikow at webtv.net Sun Sep 13 17:08:37 2009 From: DLeistikow at webtv.net (Don L. Leistikow) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 16:08:37 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Now This In-Reply-To: "Ken and Tracie" 's message of Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:29:52 -0700 Message-ID: <9988-4AAD5F55-2081@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net> Ken: I see that you are now at photo 001. This must be quite a library of photos. The two photos in question are on private right of way, just west of 37th Street. The Red brick building is a TMER&L, now WEPCO, substation located on the north west corner of 37th and Wells. Just ahead of the westbound lead car is a crossover and then a wye track which was used to gain entrance to the 37th Street Yard. The land was larger than the yard as the wye track led north then east and was used for storage of a B series sweeper, in ready condition to battle winter's snowfalls. This yard location was also used to temporarily hold streetcars which had developed problems requiring them to leave service. A Company phone box was also available on a line pole for direct connection ot WEPCO's operator who would direct the call to appropriate service departments. The lead photo suggests that the two cars are on a fan trip as in Ed Wilkommen's parlance, ... 'a fan free photograph'. Most likely, the two cars are on Charter on the Sunday before abandonment. Those cars were 972 and 966, if I remember correctly. Although my 'webber' is not as sharp in photo downloads, there does not seem to be any Run Number, on the lead car. Most likely, not enough EX Run Numbers to go around in those latter days. Don L. From DLeistikow at webtv.net Sun Sep 13 17:24:24 2009 From: DLeistikow at webtv.net (Don L. Leistikow) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 16:24:24 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: How 'bout the Village? In-Reply-To: "Ken and Tracie" 's message of Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:32:46 -0700 Message-ID: <9985-4AAD6308-4657@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net> Ken: Yes, this is the Heart of Wauwatosa ... Harwood and State street and just south of there was the Harwood Streetcar Terminal and Bus Loop, as depicted in these photographs. fwiw... TWERHS, while briefly associated with Mid-Continent Railway Museum, did take down the Wauwatosa Transfer Station and did move same to North Freedom. It was off loaded up there, adjacent to the mainline and spur which led to M-C's Station and Yard tracks. I should mention that the building was taken down in sections so as to make re-assembly quite easy. It was left behind when TWERHS was given a choice of stopping incoming traction rolling stock or ... move out! We moved out and the Wauwatosa building segements were left behind. Don L. From msa_vianney at hotmail.com Mon Sep 14 00:33:52 2009 From: msa_vianney at hotmail.com (Matthew Austin) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:33:52 +1000 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Thanks guys - some questions In-Reply-To: <9985-4AAD6308-4657@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net> References: "Ken and Tracie" 's message of Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:32:46 -0700 <9985-4AAD6308-4657@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: Thanks for the pics, they all add to this Aussie's level of knowledge. Just wondering, does Hales Corners today look anything like it did in TM/Speedrail/MRT days? I've used Google Streetview to try and get an idea of places then and now, but I'm wondering if anything remains from where the line was cut back to the Hales Corners loop. Cheers, Matt _________________________________________________________________ Take a peek at other people's pay and perks Check out The Great Australian Pay Check http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/ From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Sun Sep 13 14:41:12 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:41:12 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] One More References: <7521-4AAD32C6-3749@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <9C8583778EF246A5A7430F0F99DAA3B1@KTJosephson> -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 104k (106968 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/thennow01%20-%201a.jpg From DLeistikow at webtv.net Mon Sep 14 04:36:01 2009 From: DLeistikow at webtv.net (Don L. Leistikow) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 03:36:01 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Thanks guys - some questions In-Reply-To: Matthew Austin 's message of Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:33:52 +1000 Message-ID: <7517-4AAE0071-9434@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> Matt: Good to hear from you, again. Hales Corners has changed dramatically. S. 108th Street (Hwy 100), is now a boulevard, three lanes on each side. The easternmost, north roadway is now on the old private right of way. The High Voltage towers are new and have been set back to allow for the road expansion. The entire eastern fields adjacent to the former tracks, is now all shopping malls. The intersections of Hwy 100, Forest Home and Janesville Road, have been widen and reconstructed with additional lanes. Cape Road is now Forest Home to a point where it becomes Cape Road, again. All traces of the prow are gone with the exception of a small electric sub-station on the site of the former loop. Holz Motors is now Wisconsin's largest Chevrolte Dealer and has taken over all land on the west side of Hwy 100 between Janesville Road and former Cape Road. The old (?) Hotel and Bar is still on the NW corner of Hwy 100 and Janesville Road. It has been restored and upgraded to attract business. The prow north, from where it turns to the NE on approaching Boulder Road (now Edgerton Avenue), remains intact, as does most of the prow along the east side of I 894 north. Any specific questions to be asked? Regards, Don L. From DLeistikow at webtv.net Mon Sep 14 04:44:30 2009 From: DLeistikow at webtv.net (Don L. Leistikow) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 03:44:30 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: One More In-Reply-To: "Ken and Tracie" 's message of Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:41:12 -0700 Message-ID: <7517-4AAE026E-9441@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> Ken; Photos are of the Milwaukee River looking north at the Michigan Street bridge (note the Trackless Troley westbound) and the Wisconsin Avenue Bridge beyond. Note the original Pabst Building on the east bank of the River at Wisconsin Avenue ... and the new, similar Building that replaced it shown in the photo on the right. The ornate columns on the extreme left, are on the Gimbel's Department Store that ran the length of Plankinton Avenue on the River's westside. Don L. From sunrise at bikethehoan.com Mon Sep 14 07:47:21 2009 From: sunrise at bikethehoan.com (William Sell) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 06:47:21 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Thanks guys - some questions In-Reply-To: References: <"Ken and Tracie" <9985-4AAD6308-4657@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <4aae2d39.151e640a.3960.29c5@mx.google.com> Matt I lived in Hales Corners during the period in which the Rapid Transit, then SpeedRail, thrived and died. My recollections are fairly good because we crossed the tracks daily walking to school and used the trains regularly. The only footprints generally are the power lines because Wisconsin Electric continues to own the right of way, but the land beneath the power lines was converted for all the strip malls that line 108th street and they pretty much cover up any kinds of tracks. You could walk the right of way and look for detail, but start about half way between St. Martins and Hales Corners. The tracks from downtown ended at a Co-op and fuel store and there was a turnaround at that point. The Hales Corners passenger station was kitty-corner to the large still-standing old-building bar on Janesville and 108th St. (used to be called Swedes) Going further into town there is an interesting stretch of right of way after Ridge Road. The ROW jogs a bit northeast away from the highway and becomes land that has been less developed. There were stops along this stretch. Ridge Road, Boulder Road, Pleasant Valley, to name a few. http://www.thetransportco.com/ has photos. best Bill At 11:33 PM 9/13/2009, Matthew Austin wrote: >Thanks for the pics, they all add to this Aussie's level of knowledge. > >Just wondering, does Hales Corners today look anything like it did >in TM/Speedrail/MRT days? I've used Google Streetview to try and get >an idea of places then and now, but I'm wondering if anything >remains from where the line was cut back to the Hales Corners loop. > >Cheers, >Matt > >_________________________________________________________________ >Take a peek at other people's pay and perks Check out The Great >Australian Pay Check >http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. "Let us put our minds together, and see what life we will make for our children." ---Tatanka-Iyotanka (Sitting Bull) --- Hunkpapa Lakota chief From DLeistikow at webtv.net Mon Sep 14 11:59:23 2009 From: DLeistikow at webtv.net (Don L. Leistikow) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 10:59:23 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Thanks guys - some questions In-Reply-To: William Sell 's message of Mon, 14 Sep 2009 06:47:21 -0500 Message-ID: <7522-4AAE685B-3597@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> Bill Sell and list: The Hales Corners loop area was known as Hillcrest, probably a stop from long ago when passenger service was operated to Burlington and East Troy. At Hillcrest was a small Co-Op, Standard Oil, I think. In addition, the track which served this facility was also a lead to WEPCO's Line Pole and Material Yard. Flat cars of Line Poles were a routine business. In addition, Hales Corners Lumber & Fuel was located on the SW corner of the Forest Home, Cape Road and the Hwy 100 intersection. Carloads of Coal were also a common delivery. Groceries for Big Bend Shop Rite were spotted at the HC spur where a platform was located. These were stop-off cars, as I would later discover. Big Bend Shop Rite was a member of Roundy's retailer owned Co-Op. Don L. From woodies4950 at sbcglobal.net Mon Sep 14 17:21:05 2009 From: woodies4950 at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Mcginty) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: One More Message-ID: <738039.40709.qm@web82803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ken & Tracie, ? The two troly buses are on Michigan St. I do not believe the trolly bus ever ran on Wisconsin Ave. The bus on Wisconsin Ave was a GM Diesel. Whe --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Ken and Tracie wrote: From: Ken and Tracie Subject: [milwaukee-electric] One More To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 1:41 PM -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 104k (106968 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/thennow01%20-%201a.jpg From jdl896 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 14 18:56:22 2009 From: jdl896 at yahoo.com (jdl896 at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:56:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [milwaukee-electric] ADDRESS CHANGE Message-ID: <288555.72149.qm@web81902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> PLEASE MAKE SURE THAT BY OCTOBER 1. MY NEW SCREEN BAME WILL BECOME: jdl896 at wi.rr.com ALSO, I HAVE SO MANY WONDERFUL PICTURES THAT I'VE WANTED TO POST, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW!!!!JON From DLeistikow at webtv.net Mon Sep 14 19:29:09 2009 From: DLeistikow at webtv.net (Don L. Leistikow) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:29:09 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: One More In-Reply-To: Joseph Mcginty 's message of Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <17669-4AAED1C5-7329@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net> Joseph McG and list: If you're making reference to my reply (wherein I misspelled Troley), I did state that it/they were on the Michigan Street Bridge. I then stated that the bridge behind it was the Wisconsin Avenue Bridge. You are correct about the GM motor coaches on Wisconsin Avenue. That statement is true however, the second photo, on the right, is of the new Wisconsin Avenue bridge as evidenced by the new bridge tender's 'office'. In my haste, I should have been more specific and explained the right-hand photo, as well. Thanks, for the update! Don L. From lallan45 at gmail.com Mon Sep 14 19:35:04 2009 From: lallan45 at gmail.com (Larry Allan) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:35:04 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: One More In-Reply-To: <7517-4AAE026E-9441@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> References: <7517-4AAE026E-9441@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: Thanks Ken, I sure like the nowthen photos. Notice how the First Wisconsin sign in the right photo is all but gone. On 9/14/09, Don L. Leistikow wrote: > Ken; Photos are of the Milwaukee River looking north at the Michigan > Street bridge (note the Trackless Troley westbound) and the Wisconsin > Avenue Bridge beyond. > > Note the original Pabst Building on the east bank of the River at > Wisconsin Avenue ... and the new, similar Building that replaced it > shown in the photo on the right. > > > The ornate columns on the extreme left, are on the Gimbel's Department > Store that ran the length of Plankinton Avenue on the River's westside. > > > Don L. > > > From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Mon Sep 14 20:08:43 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:08:43 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: One More References: <7517-4AAE026E-9441@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <4F3C43B222CC46CB8E3A061221E99500@KTJosephson> Yep. The Late Paul Weyrich got a kick out of that, too. K. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Allan" To: Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 4:35 PM Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: One More > Thanks Ken, I sure like the nowthen photos. Notice how the First > Wisconsin sign in the right photo is all but gone. > > On 9/14/09, Don L. Leistikow wrote: >> Ken; Photos are of the Milwaukee River looking north at the Michigan >> Street bridge (note the Trackless Troley westbound) and the Wisconsin >> Avenue Bridge beyond. >> >> Note the original Pabst Building on the east bank of the River at >> Wisconsin Avenue ... and the new, similar Building that replaced it >> shown in the photo on the right. >> >> >> The ornate columns on the extreme left, are on the Gimbel's Department >> Store that ran the length of Plankinton Avenue on the River's westside. >> >> >> Don L. >> >> >> > From lallan45 at gmail.com Mon Sep 14 20:17:32 2009 From: lallan45 at gmail.com (Larry Allan) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:17:32 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: One More In-Reply-To: <4F3C43B222CC46CB8E3A061221E99500@KTJosephson> References: <7517-4AAE026E-9441@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> <4F3C43B222CC46CB8E3A061221E99500@KTJosephson> Message-ID: It looks to me that both photos were taken from the location of the Clybourn St. Bridge. On 9/14/09, Ken and Tracie wrote: > Yep. The Late Paul Weyrich got a kick out of that, too. > > K. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry Allan" > To: > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 4:35 PM > Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: One More > > >> Thanks Ken, I sure like the nowthen photos. Notice how the First >> Wisconsin sign in the right photo is all but gone. >> >> On 9/14/09, Don L. Leistikow wrote: >>> Ken; Photos are of the Milwaukee River looking north at the Michigan >>> Street bridge (note the Trackless Troley westbound) and the Wisconsin >>> Avenue Bridge beyond. >>> >>> Note the original Pabst Building on the east bank of the River at >>> Wisconsin Avenue ... and the new, similar Building that replaced it >>> shown in the photo on the right. >>> >>> >>> The ornate columns on the extreme left, are on the Gimbel's Department >>> Store that ran the length of Plankinton Avenue on the River's westside. >>> >>> >>> Don L. >>> >>> >>> >> > > From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Mon Sep 14 20:36:10 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:36:10 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: One More References: <7517-4AAE026E-9441@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> <4F3C43B222CC46CB8E3A061221E99500@KTJosephson> Message-ID: <7267935E09EF4127AE73E45E15776995@KTJosephson> There is a story behind Paul's photo. Paul told me he took this photo when he was a reporter for the Milwaukee Sentinel. At the time of his photo, the trackless trolleys were no longer using the Michigan Street Bridge, except for bypassing traffic tie-ups. He happened to have the camera handy and when he saw the trolley buses using the bridge that day, he hung around to take the photo. Incidentally, the friend who took the modern photo from the same vantage point took others I will share. And man, did he ever photo-document the old Waukesha Beach area....he even found the remains of a second fountain, buried in the woods, near the former junction. I have a bunch of his stuff, taken recently along the MRK, MN, Watertown and Muskego Lakes rights of way. Some are already on the web site. K. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Allan" To: Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 5:17 PM Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: One More > It looks to me that both photos were taken from the location of the > Clybourn St. Bridge. > > On 9/14/09, Ken and Tracie wrote: >> Yep. The Late Paul Weyrich got a kick out of that, too. >> >> K. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Larry Allan" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 4:35 PM >> Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: One More >> >> >>> Thanks Ken, I sure like the nowthen photos. Notice how the First >>> Wisconsin sign in the right photo is all but gone. >>> >>> On 9/14/09, Don L. Leistikow wrote: >>>> Ken; Photos are of the Milwaukee River looking north at the Michigan >>>> Street bridge (note the Trackless Troley westbound) and the Wisconsin >>>> Avenue Bridge beyond. >>>> >>>> Note the original Pabst Building on the east bank of the River at >>>> Wisconsin Avenue ... and the new, similar Building that replaced it >>>> shown in the photo on the right. >>>> >>>> >>>> The ornate columns on the extreme left, are on the Gimbel's Department >>>> Store that ran the length of Plankinton Avenue on the River's westside. >>>> >>>> >>>> Don L. -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 104k (106886 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/02-thennow01%20-%201a.jpg From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Mon Sep 14 21:14:05 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:14:05 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] TM/M&ST Remnants References: <7517-4AAE026E-9441@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> <4F3C43B222CC46CB8E3A061221E99500@KTJosephson> <7267935E09EF4127AE73E45E15776995@KTJosephson> Message-ID: <3008E8B5E568437BB8362112A2A50A4A@KTJosephson> Here we go: -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 78k (80313 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics001.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 57k (58925 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics002.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 73k (75145 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics003.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 29k (29824 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics004.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 87k (90098 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics007.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 54k (55446 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics008.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 59k (60882 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics009.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 54k (55469 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics010.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 67k (69083 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics011.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 69k (71152 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics012.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 71k (73023 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics013.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 64k (65775 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics016.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 73k (75269 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics019.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 30k (31272 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/rehab022.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 35k (36188 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/rehab023.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 32k (33144 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/rehab024.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 48k (49296 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/rehab025.jpg From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Mon Sep 14 21:16:04 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:16:04 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] OOOOPS! References: <7517-4AAE026E-9441@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> <4F3C43B222CC46CB8E3A061221E99500@KTJosephson> <7267935E09EF4127AE73E45E15776995@KTJosephson> Message-ID: <2E69BE6707E84A96AB76C30EDC326444@KTJosephson> Accidently attached some work safety survey pix. Here's what I intended to attach: -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 79k (81808 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics020.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 61k (62803 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics021.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 97k (100047 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics022.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 82k (84831 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics023.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 69k (70881 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics024.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 135k (139218 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics025.jpg From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Mon Sep 14 21:19:07 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:19:07 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] More Survivors References: <7517-4AAE026E-9441@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> <4F3C43B222CC46CB8E3A061221E99500@KTJosephson> <7267935E09EF4127AE73E45E15776995@KTJosephson> Message-ID: <26296B0845EE472F9A45F013857EDE4E@KTJosephson> -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 65k (66829 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics026.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 79k (81466 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics028.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 68k (69816 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics029.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 63k (64525 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics032.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 19k (20091 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics033.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 67k (69110 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics034.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 78k (80750 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics036.jpg From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Mon Sep 14 21:22:18 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:22:18 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] The "Lost" Fountain at Waukesha Beach References: <7517-4AAE026E-9441@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> <4F3C43B222CC46CB8E3A061221E99500@KTJosephson> <7267935E09EF4127AE73E45E15776995@KTJosephson> Message-ID: -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 114k (117190 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics041.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 101k (104295 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics042.jpg From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Mon Sep 14 21:37:01 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:37:01 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Others References: <7517-4AAE026E-9441@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> <4F3C43B222CC46CB8E3A061221E99500@KTJosephson> <7267935E09EF4127AE73E45E15776995@KTJosephson> Message-ID: <4BD55D2C102648BD9B9F6E85F8174A92@KTJosephson> -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 114k (117468 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics047.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 111k (114680 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics050.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 59k (61218 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics054.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 74k (75892 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics055.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 83k (85236 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics056.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 133k (136925 bytes) -- URL : 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http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics090.jpg From sunrise at bikethehoan.com Mon Sep 14 23:52:58 2009 From: sunrise at bikethehoan.com (William Sell) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 22:52:58 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Thanks guys - some questions In-Reply-To: <7522-4AAE685B-3597@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> References: <7522-4AAE685B-3597@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <4aaf0f87.1d1d640a.540c.2493@mx.google.com> That checks with my memory. Hillcrest is not a word I remember (I was young), but we did walk up the line to the Co-op. There was a bit of extra track alongside the Hales Corners station, serving the shops nearby. I recall only a single track coming into HC from downtown, but after the passenger station, that single track split into two for the final half mile up to the co-op - allowing frequent trains (at one time) to pass each other. Also there was a stand-alone platform which was served by a third track breaking off the double track. Before my time I would suspect several shops received deliveries to this ramp, which had a slope on which a truck could drive. But I do not remember a single time when I saw the ramp used in this way. The lumber construction was old and unpainted at that time. It probably died as a useful tool, - when, before the war?? In time, the track to the co-op was no longer used by the Rapid Transit -- or the Speedrail (not clear when) -- and the train simply stopped at the station, and the conductor switched to the back (front) of the train for the return to town. Hales Corners Lumber and Fuel continued well into the 20th century, serving the growing community with building supplies; I sort of think it is still there (need to check next time I'm in HC). Our house (which was torn down only one year ago) was a bit east of the HC passenger station, across the street from Senfts, the inn that occupied the triangle on which the train picked up and dropped off passengers. I once found a photo of the old HC station, but in my perusing of TransportCo.Com this weekend I did not see it. Maybe it will turn up in my files. Development wrecked all this; HC would be a charming village with all of these artifacts had the automobile not ruled the roost for a generation and more. best Bill Sell At 10:59 AM 9/14/2009, Don L. Leistikow wrote: >Bill Sell and list: The Hales Corners loop area was known as >Hillcrest, probably a stop from long ago when passenger service was >operated to Burlington and East >Troy. > >At Hillcrest was a small Co-Op, Standard Oil, I think. In addition, the >track which served this facility was also a lead to WEPCO's Line Pole >and Material Yard. Flat cars of Line Poles were a routine business. In >addition, Hales Corners Lumber & Fuel was located on the SW corner of >the Forest Home, Cape Road and the Hwy 100 intersection. Carloads of >Coal were also a common delivery. > >Groceries for Big Bend Shop Rite were spotted at the HC spur where a >platform was located. These were stop-off cars, as I would later >discover. Big Bend Shop Rite was a member of Roundy's retailer owned >Co-Op. > >Don L. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. "Let us put our minds together, and see what life we will make for our children." ---Tatanka-Iyotanka (Sitting Bull) --- Hunkpapa Lakota chief From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Tue Sep 15 02:25:55 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:25:55 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] A Few More References: <7517-4AAE026E-9441@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> <4F3C43B222CC46CB8E3A061221E99500@KTJosephson> <7267935E09EF4127AE73E45E15776995@KTJosephson> <4BD55D2C102648BD9B9F6E85F8174A92@KTJosephson> Message-ID: <4E9F6ABCBC9A4885B000EA7F70DAA74A@KTJosephson> Look for the surviving span wire along the Burlington right of way! Don't let those modern gray "post" style insulators on the power pole fool you...............the pole tag was dated 1929. K. -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 99k (102126 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics091.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 57k (58792 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics106.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 85k (87273 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics112.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 102k (104639 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics119.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 52k (53322 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics125.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 105k (108424 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics129.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 105k (108142 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/relics129a.jpg From sunrise at bikethehoan.com Mon Sep 14 07:50:15 2009 From: sunrise at bikethehoan.com (William Sell) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 06:50:15 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: One More In-Reply-To: <7517-4AAE026E-9441@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> References: <"Ken and Tracie" <7517-4AAE026E-9441@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <4aafb12b.c6c1f10a.10f5.ffffb4c8@mx.google.com> Several of you mention photos, but you could send me the links? I'm sort of new to this list and not familiar. thanks Bill At 03:44 AM 9/14/2009, Don L. Leistikow wrote: >Ken; Photos are of the Milwaukee River looking north at the Michigan >Street bridge (note the Trackless Troley westbound) and the Wisconsin >Avenue Bridge beyond. > >Note the original Pabst Building on the east bank of the River at >Wisconsin Avenue ... and the new, similar Building that replaced it >shown in the photo on the >right. > >The ornate columns on the extreme left, are on the Gimbel's Department >Store that ran the length of Plankinton Avenue on the River's >westside. > >Don L. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. "Let us put our minds together, and see what life we will make for our children." ---Tatanka-Iyotanka (Sitting Bull) --- Hunkpapa Lakota chief From DLeistikow at webtv.net Tue Sep 15 21:52:55 2009 From: DLeistikow at webtv.net (Don L. Leistikow) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:52:55 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: One More In-Reply-To: Larry Allan 's message of Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:17:32 -0500 Message-ID: <17671-4AB044F7-6263@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net> Larry Allan and list: Your observation of the two photos depicting bridges on the Milwaukee River, were not taken from the same, Clybourn Street, bridge. Check the backgrounds of each photo. Note that the First Wisconsin Bank Building is much larger in the photo on the right. The replacement structure on the NW corner of Water and Wisconsin, is also much larger, also. Close comparison will show you that the photo on the right, was taken from the Michigan Street Bridge. Don L. From sunrise at bikethehoan.com Tue Sep 15 23:20:36 2009 From: sunrise at bikethehoan.com (William Sell) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:20:36 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: One More In-Reply-To: <17671-4AB044F7-6263@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net> References: <17671-4AB044F7-6263@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <4ab0596d.0936640a.7826.ffff82f7@mx.google.com> Where are the photos? Bill Sell At 08:52 PM 9/15/2009, Don L. Leistikow wrote: >Larry Allan and list: Your observation of the two photos depicting >bridges on the Milwaukee River, were not taken from the same, Clybourn >Street, bridge. > >Check the backgrounds of each photo. Note that the First Wisconsin Bank >Building is much larger in the photo on the right. The replacement >structure on the NW corner of Water and Wisconsin, is also much larger, >also. Close comparison will show you that the photo on the right, was >taken from the Michigan Street >Bridge. > >Don L. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. "Let us put our minds together, and see what life we will make for our children." ---Tatanka-Iyotanka (Sitting Bull) --- Hunkpapa Lakota chief From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Wed Sep 16 00:06:22 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:06:22 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: One More References: <17671-4AB044F7-6263@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net> <4ab0596d.0936640a.7826.ffff82f7@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <6AED8C4FEECA4E8A96C3F3C6D10AFD7D@KTJosephson> Downtown Milwaukee. K. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Sell" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 8:20 PM Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: One More > Where are the photos? > Bill Sell > > > > At 08:52 PM 9/15/2009, Don L. Leistikow wrote: >>Larry Allan and list: Your observation of the two photos depicting >>bridges on the Milwaukee River, were not taken from the same, Clybourn >>Street, bridge. >> >>Check the backgrounds of each photo. Note that the First Wisconsin Bank >>Building is much larger in the photo on the right. The replacement >>structure on the NW corner of Water and Wisconsin, is also much larger, >>also. Close comparison will show you that the photo on the right, was >>taken from the Michigan Street >>Bridge. >> >>Don L. > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. > "Let us put our minds together, and see what life we will make for > our children." ---Tatanka-Iyotanka (Sitting Bull) --- Hunkpapa Lakota > chief > > From x779 at webtv.net Wed Sep 16 05:28:06 2009 From: x779 at webtv.net (Louis Rugani) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 09:28:06 GMT Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Kenosha streetcar items! Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Mite Graphics Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 6:10 PM To: mitegraphics at aol.com Subject: Kenosha Trolley items at HarborMarket this Saturday! Mite Graphics is going to be at the Kenosha HarborMarket this Saturday, September 19th! Join us to check out new merchandise from Mike Pavelich, the designer of the Kenosha Trolley poster.?? We???ll have posters, magnets and buttons for sale, along with samples of new items that can be purchased from our online store.?? While you???re there, we???ll also share some information about a great group that helps support the streetcars in Kenosha, the Kenosha Streetcar Society (http://kenoshastreetcarsociety.org).?? If you can???t stop by to see us, you can view our new merchandise by visiting our website: http://mitegraphics.com.?? Online there are 16 new designs available, on everything from t-shirts, to tote bags, mugs and more! For more information about the market, visit http://www.kenoshaharbormarket.com/.?? The market runs from 9:00am until 2:00pm.?? We hope to see you there! Mike and Teresa Pavelich Mite Graphics Kenosha, WI mitegraphics at aol.com http://mitegraphics.com ?? Follow us on Twitter!?? http://twitter.com/mitegraphics Become a fan on Facebook! Mite Graphics on Facebook or search for Mite Graphics From x779 at webtv.net Wed Sep 16 06:18:38 2009 From: x779 at webtv.net (Louis Rugani) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:18:38 GMT Subject: [milwaukee-electric] ADDRESS CHANGE Message-ID: You may have to make the address change yourself. As to photos, I don't think there is a photo archive here. Try posting to Wisconsin Railroading: www.onelist.com/group/WisconsinRailroading =Lou= ~~~~~~~~~~ **-=\/=-** ~~~~~~~~~~ The opposite of bravery is not cowardice, but conformity.  Robert Anthony -----Original Message----- From: jdl896 at yahoo.com Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 5:56 PM To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org Subject: [milwaukee-electric] ADDRESS CHANGE PLEASE MAKE SURE THAT BY OCTOBER 1. MY NEW SCREEN BAME WILL BECOME: jdl896 at wi.rr.com ALSO, I HAVE SO MANY WONDERFUL PICTURES THAT I'VE WANTED TO POST, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW!!!!JON From jdl896 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 16 15:59:31 2009 From: jdl896 at yahoo.com (jdl896 at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:59:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [milwaukee-electric] ADDRESS CHANGE Message-ID: <744085.49878.qm@web81908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> WILL YOU PLEASE CHANGE MY E MAIL ABBRESS FROM jdl896 at yahoo,comTO jdl896 at wi.rr.com THANK YOU.JOHN From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Wed Sep 16 16:40:00 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:40:00 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: ADDRESS CHANGE References: Message-ID: Hi Lou, We now have a photo archive. I am the moderator of this list, but the host is in Pittsburgh. I have forwarded John's request to our host, Derrick Brashear. K. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louis Rugani" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:18 AM Subject: [milwaukee-electric] ADDRESS CHANGE > You may have to make the address change yourself. As to photos, I don't > think there is a photo archive here. Try posting to Wisconsin Railroading: > www.onelist.com/group/WisconsinRailroading > > =Lou= > > ~~~~~~~~~~ **-=\/=-** ~~~~~~~~~~ > > The opposite of bravery is not cowardice, but conformity.  Robert > Anthony > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jdl896 at yahoo.com > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 5:56 PM > To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org > Subject: [milwaukee-electric] ADDRESS CHANGE > > PLEASE MAKE SURE THAT BY OCTOBER 1. MY NEW SCREEN BAME WILL BECOME: > jdl896 at wi.rr.com > ALSO, I HAVE SO MANY WONDERFUL PICTURES THAT I'VE WANTED TO POST, BUT I > DON'T KNOW HOW!!!!JON > > > > From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Wed Sep 16 17:04:25 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:04:25 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Attaching Photos References: <744085.49878.qm@web81908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4837F0138AC24540A7B8430317D1FE8A@KTJosephson> Simply attach a photo file to your posts. The server with remove the photo and replace it with a link to the archive, where you can view the pictures. K. From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Wed Sep 16 17:05:07 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:05:07 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Examples of Attached Photo Links Message-ID: Various locations. You can see how L-5 was stripped between 1959 and 1961. L-9 is now the principle freight hauler on the East Troy line, though it is rare for shippers to use the railroad these days. I have included pix of a Sheboygan locomotive and a Wausau plow. Also included is one of the GREAT MYSTERIES of Milwaukee traction history..........why were photos of city equipment running through the former North Milwaukee area so scarce? I know the trackless trolleys were cut back to Teutonia and Atkinson in 1963 or '63 due to some street construction on Cameron or one of those streets near the northern end of the line. But there just don't seem to be many pictures taken out that way. It wasn't a dangerous neighborhood (back then.) Go figure. K. -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 58k (59957 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/b47.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 65k (66946 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/d14.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 67k (69343 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/d23.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 55k (56676 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/d23city.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 77k (79845 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/l3.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 43k (44850 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/l5.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 55k (56379 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/l5a.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 41k (42780 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/l9a.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 43k (44639 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/m1.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 48k (49610 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/m14a.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 47k (48539 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/m26.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 50k (51657 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/wvpswausau.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 62k (63705 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/wpl1000.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 54k (55817 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/35thsilverspring.jpg From jdl896 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 16 18:02:27 2009 From: jdl896 at yahoo.com (jdl896 at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:02:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Attaching Photos Message-ID: <375126.97464.qm@web81907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Wed, 9/16/09, Ken and Tracie wrote: From: Ken and Tracie Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Attaching Photos To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org Date: Wednesday, September 16, 2009, 4:04 PM Simply attach a photo file to your posts. The server with remove the photo and replace it with a link to the archive, where you can view the pictures. K. -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 1999k (2047515 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/Pullman%20208.jpg From sbgreig_m1 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 16 18:30:09 2009 From: sbgreig_m1 at yahoo.com (Scott Greig) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Examples of Attached Photo Links In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <522252.37021.qm@web65511.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Same's true for pics of Chicago streetcars on the West Side. --- On Wed, 9/16/09, Ken and Tracie wrote: > From: Ken and Tracie > Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Examples of Attached Photo Links > To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org > Date: Wednesday, September 16, 2009, 4:05 PM > Various locations. You can see how > L-5 was stripped between 1959 and 1961. > L-9 is now the principle freight hauler on the East Troy > line, though it is > rare for shippers to use the railroad these days. > I have included pix of a Sheboygan locomotive and a Wausau > plow. > > Also included is one of the GREAT MYSTERIES of Milwaukee > traction > history..........why were photos of city equipment running > through the > former North Milwaukee area so scarce? I know the trackless > trolleys were > cut back to Teutonia and Atkinson in 1963 or '63 due to > some street > construction on Cameron or one of those streets near the > northern end of the > line. But there just don't seem to be many pictures taken > out that way. It > wasn't a dangerous neighborhood (back then.) > > Go figure. > > K. > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 58k (59957 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/b47.jpg > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 65k (66946 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/d14.jpg > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 67k (69343 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/d23.jpg > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 55k (56676 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/d23city.jpg > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 77k (79845 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/l3.jpg > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 43k (44850 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/l5.jpg > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 55k (56379 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/l5a.jpg > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 41k (42780 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/l9a.jpg > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 43k (44639 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/m1.jpg > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 48k (49610 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/m14a.jpg > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 47k (48539 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/m26.jpg > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 50k (51657 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/wvpswausau.jpg > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 62k (63705 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/wpl1000.jpg > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 54k (55817 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/35thsilverspring.jpg > > > > From DLeistikow at webtv.net Wed Sep 16 20:43:33 2009 From: DLeistikow at webtv.net (Don L. Leistikow) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:43:33 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Examples of Attached Photo Links In-Reply-To: "Ken and Tracie" 's message of Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:05:07 -0700 Message-ID: <22826-4AB18635-609@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net> Ken and list: Speaking about the very north end of the Route 27 line on 35th at Silver Spring Road, I agree... photos north of 27th and Hopkins are few and far between. One must remember that way back when, rush-hour cars of Route 12, did go through via the 27 route to Silver Spring Road, too. So, those interested must also checkout photos of Route 12 cars, also. Actually, close inspection of the major collections such as Don's Rail Spot, Dave's Railpix and the other (name?) for photos on the north end of the two Routes. Then, there are the B&W photo collections offered by several photographers for many years past. Don L. From DLeistikow at webtv.net Wed Sep 16 20:57:33 2009 From: DLeistikow at webtv.net (Don L. Leistikow) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:57:33 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Examples of Attached Photo Links In-Reply-To: Scott Greig 's message of Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <22826-4AB1897D-623@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net> Ken and list: The TM book quotes Route 27 cars replaced Route 12 cars north of 27th and Hopkins on April 18th, 1937. However, I clearly remember Route 12 cars signed for Silver Spring during WW 2. Particularly during the rush-hours. Don L. From sunrise at bikethehoan.com Wed Sep 16 22:20:22 2009 From: sunrise at bikethehoan.com (William Sell) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:20:22 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Examples of Attached Photo Links In-Reply-To: <522252.37021.qm@web65511.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <522252.37021.qm@web65511.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4ab1a332.0735640a.458e.10fc@mx.google.com> These photos are oustanding. Like digital but we know, it must have been a very good film Bill At 05:30 PM 9/16/2009, you wrote: >Same's true for pics of Chicago streetcars on the West Side. > >--- On Wed, 9/16/09, Ken and Tracie wrote: > > > From: Ken and Tracie > > Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Examples of Attached Photo Links > > To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org > > Date: Wednesday, September 16, 2009, 4:05 PM > > Various locations. You can see how > > L-5 was stripped between 1959 and 1961. > > L-9 is now the principle freight hauler on the East Troy > > line, though it is > > rare for shippers to use the railroad these days. > > I have included pix of a Sheboygan locomotive and a Wausau > > plow. > > > > Also included is one of the GREAT MYSTERIES of Milwaukee > > traction > > history..........why were photos of city equipment running > > through the > > former North Milwaukee area so scarce? I know the trackless > > trolleys were > > cut back to Teutonia and Atkinson in 1963 or '63 due to > > some street > > construction on Cameron or one of those streets near the > > northern end of the > > line. But there just don't seem to be many pictures taken > > out that way. It > > wasn't a dangerous neighborhood (back then.) > > > > Go figure. > > > > K. > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 58k (59957 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/b47.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 65k (66946 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/d14.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 67k (69343 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/d23.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 55k (56676 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/d23city.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 77k (79845 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/l3.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 43k (44850 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/l5.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 55k (56379 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/l5a.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 41k (42780 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/l9a.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 43k (44639 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/m1.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 48k (49610 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/m14a.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 47k (48539 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/m26.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 50k (51657 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/wvpswausau.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 62k (63705 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/wpl1000.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 54k (55817 bytes) > > -- URL : > http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/35thsilverspring.jpg > > > > > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. "Let us put our minds together, and see what life we will make for our children." ---Tatanka-Iyotanka (Sitting Bull) --- Hunkpapa Lakota chief From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Wed Sep 16 23:36:18 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:36:18 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: The "Devil's Teapot" References: <7531-4AADAA45-61@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <2D1811D0F0BE4AB6B566EE956B3D8B96@KTJosephson> Hi Don, The photo is from the book, "Along the Right of Way to East Troy" by Charles Damaske. I have no idea where he got the photo. K. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don L. Leistikow" To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 7:28 PM Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: The "Devil's Teapot" > Ken: That's an interesting photo of an 1100 at the site of the Muskego > Washout, better known as the Devil's Tea Pot. > > Somewhere, I have an article which contains many of the details along > with some photographs, the exception being that this is the first time > that I have seen the photo which you posted. > > While the car is indistinguishable on my 'webber', I would really > appreciate a photographic copy of it. Reason being that the > information that I have says something about a car isolated between the > washout and East Troy. So, that car would back up in one direction or > the other to accomodate passengers who, for the duration of the > impediment, had to walk around it, to complete a journey in either > direction. The outbound car from Milwaukee would reverse direction of > the car at the Muskego wye. > > For the record, all Rapid Transit 1100's were single ended with the > exception of the 1102, 1103 and 1104, which had controls at both ends, > walkover seats and air operated passenger doors. > > Anyway, I shall look up and copy the article, which also contains the > date of the incident. Will then forward same on to you. > > Rebuilt MN cars were not ready for service until sometime in 1931. > > Don L. > > From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Thu Sep 17 04:32:10 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 01:32:10 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] More Work Equipment Message-ID: <1EBC15B9A2344D37AC3F7F9916109E38@KTJosephson> -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 48k (49860 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/pw0001.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 59k (60590 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/pw0002.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 63k (65046 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/pw0028.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 50k (51827 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/etm15o.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 47k (48786 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/ettm003.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 60k (62249 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/etm15z6.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 58k (59398 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/mst0093.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 62k (64027 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/pw0026.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 70k (72481 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/tmcity016.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 63k (64940 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/tmcity017.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 54k (55468 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/tmlakeside001.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 55k (56608 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/tmrt033.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 70k (71771 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/tmwork0002.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 63k (65157 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/tmwork0009.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 77k (78848 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/tmwork0017.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 76k (77916 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/tmwork0023.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 68k (70164 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/tmwork0030.jpg From rso1000 at hotmail.com Thu Sep 17 10:16:19 2009 From: rso1000 at hotmail.com (Ron Smolen) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:16:19 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Examples of Attached Photo Links In-Reply-To: <522252.37021.qm@web65511.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <522252.37021.qm@web65511.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: from below a great rare photo of the TC48 540-589 series from Indianapolis I haven't seen a lot of photos of this series ) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/35thsilverspring.jpg > > > > Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:30:09 -0700 > From: sbgreig_m1 at yahoo.com > Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Examples of Attached Photo Links > To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org > > Same's true for pics of Chicago streetcars on the West Side. > > --- On Wed, 9/16/09, Ken and Tracie wrote: > > > From: Ken and Tracie > > Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Examples of Attached Photo Links > > To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org > > Date: Wednesday, September 16, 2009, 4:05 PM > > Various locations. You can see how > > L-5 was stripped between 1959 and 1961. > > L-9 is now the principle freight hauler on the East Troy > > line, though it is > > rare for shippers to use the railroad these days. > > I have included pix of a Sheboygan locomotive and a Wausau > > plow. > > > > Also included is one of the GREAT MYSTERIES of Milwaukee > > traction > > history..........why were photos of city equipment running > > through the > > former North Milwaukee area so scarce? I know the trackless > > trolleys were > > cut back to Teutonia and Atkinson in 1963 or '63 due to > > some street > > construction on Cameron or one of those streets near the > > northern end of the > > line. But there just don't seem to be many pictures taken > > out that way. It > > wasn't a dangerous neighborhood (back then.) > > > > Go figure. > > > > K. > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 58k (59957 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/b47.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 65k (66946 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/d14.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 67k (69343 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/d23.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 55k (56676 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/d23city.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 77k (79845 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/l3.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 43k (44850 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/l5.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 55k (56379 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/l5a.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 41k (42780 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/l9a.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 43k (44639 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/m1.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 48k (49610 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/m14a.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 47k (48539 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/m26.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 50k (51657 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/wvpswausau.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 62k (63705 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/wpl1000.jpg > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > > -- > > -- Type: image/jpeg > > -- Size: 54k (55817 bytes) > > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/35thsilverspring.jpg > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Ready for Fall shows? Use Bing to find helpful ratings and reviews on digital tv's. http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=digital+tv's&form=MSHNCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHNCB_Vertical_Shopping_DigitalTVs_1x1 From lallan45 at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 10:26:23 2009 From: lallan45 at gmail.com (Larry Allan) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:26:23 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: The "Devil's Teapot" In-Reply-To: <2D1811D0F0BE4AB6B566EE956B3D8B96@KTJosephson> References: <7531-4AADAA45-61@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> <2D1811D0F0BE4AB6B566EE956B3D8B96@KTJosephson> Message-ID: To all: The pictured in the Washout photo appears to be Work Car. I wonder way they (TM) built the ROW directly through this Bog. Couldn't have went around it to the south or north. On 9/16/09, Ken and Tracie wrote: > Hi Don, > > The photo is from the book, "Along the Right of Way to East Troy" by Charles > Damaske. > > I have no idea where he got the photo. > > K. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don L. Leistikow" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 7:28 PM > Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: The "Devil's Teapot" > > >> Ken: That's an interesting photo of an 1100 at the site of the Muskego >> Washout, better known as the Devil's Tea Pot. >> >> Somewhere, I have an article which contains many of the details along >> with some photographs, the exception being that this is the first time >> that I have seen the photo which you posted. >> >> While the car is indistinguishable on my 'webber', I would really >> appreciate a photographic copy of it. Reason being that the >> information that I have says something about a car isolated between the >> washout and East Troy. So, that car would back up in one direction or >> the other to accomodate passengers who, for the duration of the >> impediment, had to walk around it, to complete a journey in either >> direction. The outbound car from Milwaukee would reverse direction of >> the car at the Muskego wye. >> >> For the record, all Rapid Transit 1100's were single ended with the >> exception of the 1102, 1103 and 1104, which had controls at both ends, >> walkover seats and air operated passenger doors. >> >> Anyway, I shall look up and copy the article, which also contains the >> date of the incident. Will then forward same on to you. >> >> Rebuilt MN cars were not ready for service until sometime in 1931. >> >> Don L. >> >> > > > From jdl896 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 17 17:45:40 2009 From: jdl896 at yahoo.com (jdl896 at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [milwaukee-electric] address change Message-ID: <614115.93515.qm@web81903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This us my Yahoo address, but future mails can come to my new sccreen name:jdl896 at wi.rr.comThanks so much.John Luedtke The attached picture is of the westbound Saint Louis Coach 98, stopping on 11th and Mitchell street, in front of Schusters Department store.When this photo was taken in the 1940's. busy shoppers used to go "down by Schusters!" -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 96k (98429 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/Coach98.jpg From x779 at webtv.net Fri Sep 18 13:29:00 2009 From: x779 at webtv.net (Louis Rugani) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 17:29:00 GMT Subject: [milwaukee-electric] "The Trolley at East Troy" (1986) Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Louis Rugani Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 12:19 PM To: trolleys at onelist.com, milwaukee-electric at onelist.com, wisconsinrailroading at onelist.com, rails-of-milwaukee at onelist.com, wishortlines at onelist.com, chicagolandtraction at onelist.com, shoreline at onelist.com, kenoshastreetcars at onelist.com, midwestinterurban at onelist.om Subject: "The Trolley at East Troy" (1986) It's finally on YouTube. See all six parts. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%22The Trolley at East Troy%22&search_type=&aq=f See the Trolley at East Troy listing on the Internet Movie DataBase: www.imdb.com . (Apologies for the multiple postings onto different forums.) From lallan45 at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 16:21:42 2009 From: lallan45 at gmail.com (Larry Allan) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 15:21:42 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Photos of Devil's Teapot Washout 1917 Message-ID: Regarding Don's request of photographs of the washout. I did a little checking and found 20 photos are available for viewing or digital copies at $10 each. These images are not in the on line database. I will try to get to the Milwaukee Public Central Library next week and view them. I will buy a few images and post them. It will take about a week for them to scan. The photos may be viewed in the Frank P. Zeidler Humanities Room of the Central Library; for an appointment or additional information please call 414 286-3061. The photos are filed in the Accident Index Listing - Interurban Devil's Teapot Washout- Spring 1917. From DLeistikow at webtv.net Fri Sep 18 19:46:11 2009 From: DLeistikow at webtv.net (Don L. Leistikow) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:46:11 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Photos of Devil's Teapot Washout 1917 In-Reply-To: Larry Allan 's message of Fri, 18 Sep 2009 15:21:42 -0500 Message-ID: <20407-4AB41BC3-2527@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net> That's good news, Larry Allan. Digital copies at ten bucks each, seems pricey, will they allow photostats or copying the pix with a camera? Now, as information for the list: It is quite an article as I have Milwaukee Journal print of it from 1972 and another account of it from Scale Model Traction & Trolleys. My elderly brain tells me that there have been other failures at that site, since this one. I seem to recall a photo of a car stranded out there as it was behind the washout. Passengers had to walk around the site, in both directions. I've just re-read an account published in Scale Model Traction & Trolleys Quarterly, of this same failure. This article is far more detailed than that which appeared in The Milwaukee Journal (wonder what the Milwaukee Sentinel and/or the old Wisconsin News, reported on this matter) as those articles should be of interest, also. For the record, the Wisconsin News, a competitive afternoon paper, failed in the late 1930's and was merged into the Milwaukee Sentinel, which then was a morning paper. Don L. From sbgreig_m1 at yahoo.com Sat Sep 19 09:36:18 2009 From: sbgreig_m1 at yahoo.com (Scott Greig) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 06:36:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Photos of Devil's Teapot Washout 1917 In-Reply-To: <20407-4AB41BC3-2527@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <51804.2344.qm@web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Pictures all across the board have gone up in price the last fifteen years...$10 for an 8x10 is not so bad anymore. --- On Fri, 9/18/09, Don L. Leistikow wrote: > From: Don L. Leistikow > Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Photos of Devil's Teapot Washout 1917 > To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org > Date: Friday, September 18, 2009, 6:46 PM > That's good news, Larry Allan.? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ??? > > Digital copies at ten bucks each, seems pricey, will they > allow > photostats or copying the pix with a camera?? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > > Now, as information for the list:? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ??? > > It is quite an article as I have Milwaukee Journal print of > it from 1972 > and another account of it from Scale Model Traction & > Trolleys.? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ??? > > My elderly brain tells me that there have been other > failures at that > site, since this one.? I seem to recall a photo of a > car stranded out > there as it was behind the washout.? Passengers had to > walk around the > site, in both directions.? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > > I've just re-read an account published in Scale Model > Traction & > Trolleys Quarterly, of this same failure.? This > article is far more > detailed than that which appeared in The Milwaukee Journal > (wonder what > the Milwaukee Sentinel and/or the old Wisconsin News, > reported on this > matter) as those articles should be of interest, > also.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ??? > > For the record, the Wisconsin News, a competitive afternoon > paper, > failed in the late 1930's and was merged into the Milwaukee > Sentinel, > which then was a morning paper.? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ??? > > Don L.? ? ??? > > > From x779 at webtv.net Sun Sep 20 00:59:34 2009 From: x779 at webtv.net (Louis Rugani) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 04:59:34 GMT Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Photo archive. Message-ID: Excellent, thanks! Is it possible to visit archived photos? =Lou= ~~~~~~~~~~ **-=\/=-** ~~~~~~~~~~ The opposite of bravery is not cowardice, but conformity.  Robert Anthony -----Original Message----- From: Ken and Tracie Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:40 PM To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: ADDRESS CHANGE Hi Lou, We now have a photo archive. I am the moderator of this list, but the host is in Pittsburgh. I have forwarded John's request to our host, Derrick Brashear. K. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louis Rugani" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:18 AM Subject: [milwaukee-electric] ADDRESS CHANGE > You may have to make the address change yourself. As to photos, I don't > think there is a photo archive here. Try posting to Wisconsin Railroading: > www.onelist.com/group/WisconsinRailroading > > =Lou= > > ~~~~~~~~~~ **-=\/=-** ~~~~~~~~~~ > > The opposite of bravery is not cowardice, but conformity.  Robert > Anthony > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jdl896 at yahoo.com > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 5:56 PM > To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org > Subject: [milwaukee-electric] ADDRESS CHANGE > > PLEASE MAKE SURE THAT BY OCTOBER 1. MY NEW SCREEN BAME WILL BECOME: > jdl896 at wi.rr.com > ALSO, I HAVE SO MANY WONDERFUL PICTURES THAT I'VE WANTED TO POST, BUT I > DON'T KNOW HOW!!!!JON > > > > From x779 at webtv.net Mon Sep 21 15:57:37 2009 From: x779 at webtv.net (LouRugani) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:57:37 -0000 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Fwd: Milwaukee getting back on board after 51 years. Message-ID: --- In WisconsinRailroading at yahoogroups.com: Streetcar plan aimed at east side commuters By Larry Sandler of the Journal Sentinel Posted: Sept. 18, 2009 Plans for a $64 million Milwaukee streetcar line have shifted toward a commuter-oriented route that would connect lower east side neighborhoods with downtown office buildings, veering away from a more tourist-themed loop around downtown attractions, Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett says. City planners are studying three route options, all of which would run from the downtown Amtrak-Greyhound station and the Midwest Airlines Center to the intersection of E. Ogden and N. Prospect avenues, with a possible extension to E. Brady St. In future years, the system could be extended to the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Marquette University, Riverwest, Walker's Point and other neighborhoods within a few miles of the original route, depending on whether funding is available. Barrett will unveil the route options Friday morning at a community development summit meeting on regional transportation, sponsored by the Urban Economic Development Association of Wisconsin and the Greater Milwaukee Committee. The public can review and comment on the streetcar plans at a public information session from 3 to 7 p.m. Oct. 8 at the Zeidler Municipal Building, 841 N. Broadway. The streetcar plans are part of the Milwaukee Connector study, a joint transit planning effort by the city, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin Center District and Metropolitan Milwaukee Association of Commerce. The study was aimed at finding ways to use $91.5 million in long-idle federal transit aid, until Congress finally settled the issue by handing $54.5 million to the city for streetcars and $36.6 million to the county for express buses. City officials plan to use modern streetcars, a lower-cost form of the light rail operating in Seattle, Tacoma, Wash., and Portland, Ore. The streetcars would operate in regular traffic lanes and would not take away any street parking, said downtown Ald. Bob Bauman, chairman of the Common Council's Public Works Committee. Planners are considering technology that would turn traffic signals green as streetcars approach, City Engineer Jeff Polenske said. Barrett's initial streetcar route would have looped around downtown from the train station, leading to criticism that it would serve visitors better than residents. The new route options are focused on connecting densely populated neighborhoods with major employment centers and hotels, Barrett and Bauman said. But the depot is still a key stop, anticipating that plans for commuter rail and high-speed rail would bring in more visitors who could use a transit link for the last leg of their trip, Bauman said. The streetcar could be operating by 2014, and rail links to Chicago would likely be beefed up if the Windy City lands the 2016 Olympics, Barrett said. If authorities can agree on funding, the KRM Commuter Link rail line could be in place by 2015 or 2016, a timetable that might be accelerated for the Olympics, Ken Yunker, executive director of the Southeastern Wisconsin Regional Planning Commission, said Wednesday. The $206 million line would run seven round trips each weekday to connect Milwaukee, Racine and the southern suburbs to Kenosha, where passengers could transfer to the Chicago area's Metra commuter trains. Meanwhile, Midwestern governors are pressing the federal government for $3.5 billion to start a Chicago-based high-speed rail network, including a $519 million Milwaukee-to-Madison route that would connect to Amtrak's existing Chicago-to-Milwaukee Hiawatha line. The Milwaukee-to-Madison line could start service by 2013. For the streetcar, city officials are required to match the federal grant by paying 15% of construction costs. Barrett said that money could come from borrowing or a tax incremental financing district. Other options are under study to pay operating costs, Polenske said. Barrett said the city would find ways to fund the streetcars without using property taxes. Although the city is facing a $90 million budget shortfall next year, Barrett and Bauman said the streetcar line was a necessary investment to keep Milwaukee economically competitive with other cities that have or are building rail lines. "We cannot just stagnate as a community," Barrett said. From yance at oldmilwaukee.net Mon Sep 21 16:51:49 2009 From: yance at oldmilwaukee.net (Y Marti) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:51:49 -0400 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Fwd: Milwaukee getting back on board after 51 years. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090921165149.57897fltr4w2xhc0@horde.oldmilwaukee.net> Its not a done deal until the tracks are laid. Don't get complacent. There will be a storm of opposition from "Tea Party" types like Scott Walker, Charlie Sykes, etc. Make your voices heard by attending the Open House at the Municipal Building on October 8th as well as writing to members of the Common Council and the Mayor. Tell your friends to also show strong support. Quoting LouRugani : > --- In WisconsinRailroading at yahoogroups.com: > > Streetcar plan aimed at east side commuters > By Larry Sandler of the Journal Sentinel > > Posted: Sept. 18, 2009 > > Plans for a $64 million Milwaukee streetcar line have shifted toward > a commuter-oriented route that would connect lower east side > neighborhoods with downtown office buildings, veering away from a > more tourist-themed loop around downtown attractions, Milwaukee > Mayor Tom Barrett says. > > City planners are studying three route options, all of which would > run from the downtown Amtrak-Greyhound station and the Midwest > Airlines Center to the intersection of E. Ogden and N. Prospect > avenues, with a possible extension to E. Brady St. > > In future years, the system could be extended to the University of > Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Marquette University, Riverwest, Walker's Point > and other neighborhoods within a few miles of the original route, > depending on whether funding is available. > > Barrett will unveil the route options Friday morning at a community > development summit meeting on regional transportation, sponsored by > the Urban Economic Development Association of Wisconsin and the > Greater Milwaukee Committee. The public can review and comment on > the streetcar plans at a public information session from 3 to 7 p.m. > Oct. 8 at the Zeidler Municipal Building, 841 N. Broadway. > > The streetcar plans are part of the Milwaukee Connector study, a > joint transit planning effort by the city, Milwaukee County, > Wisconsin Center District and Metropolitan Milwaukee Association of > Commerce. The study was aimed at finding ways to use $91.5 million > in long-idle federal transit aid, until Congress finally settled the > issue by handing $54.5 million to the city for streetcars and $36.6 > million to the county for express buses. > > City officials plan to use modern streetcars, a lower-cost form of > the light rail operating in Seattle, Tacoma, Wash., and Portland, Ore. > > The streetcars would operate in regular traffic lanes and would not > take away any street parking, said downtown Ald. Bob Bauman, > chairman of the Common Council's Public Works Committee. Planners > are considering technology that would turn traffic signals green as > streetcars approach, City Engineer Jeff Polenske said. > > Barrett's initial streetcar route would have looped around downtown > from the train station, leading to criticism that it would serve > visitors better than residents. The new route options are focused on > connecting densely populated neighborhoods with major employment > centers and hotels, Barrett and Bauman said. > > But the depot is still a key stop, anticipating that plans for > commuter rail and high-speed rail would bring in more visitors who > could use a transit link for the last leg of their trip, Bauman > said. The streetcar could be operating by 2014, and rail links to > Chicago would likely be beefed up if the Windy City lands the 2016 > Olympics, Barrett said. > > If authorities can agree on funding, the KRM Commuter Link rail line > could be in place by 2015 or 2016, a timetable that might be > accelerated for the Olympics, Ken Yunker, executive director of the > Southeastern Wisconsin Regional Planning Commission, said Wednesday. > The $206 million line would run seven round trips each weekday to > connect Milwaukee, Racine and the southern suburbs to Kenosha, where > passengers could transfer to the Chicago area's Metra commuter trains. > > Meanwhile, Midwestern governors are pressing the federal government > for $3.5 billion to start a Chicago-based high-speed rail network, > including a $519 million Milwaukee-to-Madison route that would > connect to Amtrak's existing Chicago-to-Milwaukee Hiawatha line. The > Milwaukee-to-Madison line could start service by 2013. > > For the streetcar, city officials are required to match the federal > grant by paying 15% of construction costs. Barrett said that money > could come from borrowing or a tax incremental financing district. > Other options are under study to pay operating costs, Polenske said. > > Barrett said the city would find ways to fund the streetcars without > using property taxes. Although the city is facing a $90 million > budget shortfall next year, Barrett and Bauman said the streetcar > line was a necessary investment to keep Milwaukee economically > competitive with other cities that have or are building rail lines. > > "We cannot just stagnate as a community," Barrett said. > > > > > > From lallan45 at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 23:41:54 2009 From: lallan45 at gmail.com (Larry Allan) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 22:41:54 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] For Discussion - Who is the owner of abandoned rails in streets Message-ID: When a construction crew comes upon rails, is WE still the owner and responsible to remove them. See the attached images taken March 26th 2008 at Jackson & Juneau. -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 1064k (1090206 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_3123.JPG -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 1120k (1147743 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_3124.JPG -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 1024k (1049390 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_3125.JPG -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 1070k (1095989 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_3128.JPG -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 964k (988074 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_3129.JPG -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 1179k (1208040 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_3127.JPG -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 953k (976286 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_3131.JPG From lallan45 at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 00:27:19 2009 From: lallan45 at gmail.com (Larry Allan) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 23:27:19 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Three addition images- Jackson & Juneau Message-ID: -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 1081k (1107585 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_3126.JPG -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 1035k (1060807 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_3130.JPG -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 866k (887042 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_3132.JPG From sbgreig_m1 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 24 09:26:42 2009 From: sbgreig_m1 at yahoo.com (Scott Greig) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 06:26:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: For Discussion - Who is the owner of abandoned rails in streets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <815994.33823.qm@web65508.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I highly doubt WEPCo would have anything to do with them now...more likely the City of Milwaukee (via MCTS or the Department of Streets) owns them now. --- On Wed, 9/23/09, Larry Allan wrote: > From: Larry Allan > Subject: [milwaukee-electric] For Discussion - Who is the owner of abandoned rails in streets > To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org > Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 10:41 PM > When a construction crew comes upon > rails, is WE still the owner and > responsible to remove them. See the attached images taken > March 26th > 2008 at Jackson & Juneau. > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 1064k (1090206 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_3123.JPG > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 1120k (1147743 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_3124.JPG > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 1024k (1049390 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_3125.JPG > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 1070k (1095989 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_3128.JPG > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 964k (988074 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_3129.JPG > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 1179k (1208040 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_3127.JPG > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 953k (976286 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_3131.JPG > > > > From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Thu Sep 24 10:18:25 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 07:18:25 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: For Discussion - Who is the owner of abandoned rails in streets References: <815994.33823.qm@web65508.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9B5FBC16AAC04C61BE4369E593B75325@KTJosephson> I would believe that any trackage abandoned after WEPCO sold the Transport Company would have been the Transport Company's responsibility. If the various municipalities allowed the Transport Company to simply pave over the rails without removal, then I would guess that the rails would become the property of those cities and suburbs. But then again, I am not a lawyer. I believe the only rail MCTS owns is whatever may be located at their storage facilities. ;-) The real question is, does WP&L still own the never paved-over rails in the street in Plymouth, Wisconsin? K. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Greig" To: Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 6:26 AM Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: For Discussion - Who is the owner of abandoned rails in streets >I highly doubt WEPCo would have anything to do with them now...more likely >the City of Milwaukee (via MCTS or the Department of Streets) owns them >now. > > --- On Wed, 9/23/09, Larry Allan wrote: > >> From: Larry Allan >> Subject: [milwaukee-electric] For Discussion - Who is the owner of >> abandoned rails in streets >> To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org >> Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 10:41 PM >> When a construction crew comes upon >> rails, is WE still the owner and >> responsible to remove them. See the attached images taken >> March 26th >> 2008 at Jackson & Juneau. From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Thu Sep 24 11:20:13 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:20:13 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: One More References: <738039.40709.qm@web82803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4614243B1617435396DB5D0CF79AE332@KTJosephson> I never said they were on Wisconsin Avenue. They are on Michigan Street. But you are correct, no trackless trolleys ran on Wisconsin Avenue. K. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Mcginty" To: Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:21 PM Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: One More > Ken & Tracie, > > The two troly buses are on Michigan St. I do not believe the trolly bus > ever ran on Wisconsin Ave. The bus on Wisconsin Ave was a GM Diesel. Whe > > --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Ken and Tracie wrote: > > > From: Ken and Tracie > Subject: [milwaukee-electric] One More > To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org > Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 1:41 PM > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 104k (106968 bytes) > -- URL : > http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/thennow01%20-%201a.jpg > > > > > From dickmyers at wi.rr.com Thu Sep 24 11:26:17 2009 From: dickmyers at wi.rr.com (Dick Myers) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:26:17 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Posting of photos References: Message-ID: I understand the need to strip the photos out of the email messages and post them at a separate location. I have found it useful to bookmark the following in my browser: http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/?C=M;O=D This takes you to the directory where the photos are saved, sorted with the most recent ones at the top. That way I can look at the recently uploaded pictures without having to constantly go back to the email which lists the location of each photo file. Regards.......Dick Myers From x779 at webtv.net Thu Sep 24 11:26:35 2009 From: x779 at webtv.net (Louis Rugani) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:26:35 GMT Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Plymouth. Message-ID: There's street-running in Plymouth? Where, and how much? =Lou= ~~~~~~~~~~ **-=\/=-** ~~~~~~~~~~ The opposite of bravery is not cowardice, but conformity.  Robert Anthony From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Thu Sep 24 11:30:14 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:30:14 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Plymouth. References: Message-ID: <060E3A26449A473FB2D86B70E4834FBC@KTJosephson> A few feet left over from the Elkhart Lake interurban line. I cannot recall the exact name of the street. K. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louis Rugani" To: Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:26 AM Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Plymouth. > There's street-running in Plymouth? Where, and how much? > > =Lou= > > ~~~~~~~~~~ **-=\/=-** ~~~~~~~~~~ > > The opposite of bravery is not cowardice, but conformity.  Robert > Anthony > > > From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Thu Sep 24 11:30:56 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:30:56 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Posting of photos References: Message-ID: <85E4070F8C5A4311ACA37F452CD0C06F@KTJosephson> Thanks, Dick. I didn't know how to get in there myself. I was going to ask Derrick. K. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Myers" To: Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:26 AM Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Posting of photos >I understand the need to strip the photos out of the email messages and >post > them at a separate location. > > I have found it useful to bookmark the following in my browser: > > http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/?C=M;O=D > > This takes you to the directory where the photos are saved, sorted with > the > most recent ones at the top. That way I can look at the recently uploaded > pictures without having to constantly go back to the email which lists the > location of each photo file. > > Regards.......Dick Myers > > From yance at oldmilwaukee.net Thu Sep 24 13:46:16 2009 From: yance at oldmilwaukee.net (Y Marti) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:46:16 -0400 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: For Discussion - Who is the owner of abandoned rails in streets In-Reply-To: <9B5FBC16AAC04C61BE4369E593B75325@KTJosephson> References: <815994.33823.qm@web65508.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <9B5FBC16AAC04C61BE4369E593B75325@KTJosephson> Message-ID: <20090924134616.17102vg5xe9kk5gk@horde.oldmilwaukee.net> Rails in the street were leased franchises. Although they were put in place by the streetcar company, TMER&L, they now belong to the city. Most were removed soon after abandonment but there are still many in place that are removed when street reconstruction projects take place. Private ROW lines now owned by WEPCO are their responsibility, obviously. Quoting Ken and Tracie : > I would believe that any trackage abandoned after WEPCO sold the Transport > Company would have been the Transport Company's responsibility. If the > various municipalities allowed the Transport Company to simply pave over the > rails without removal, then I would guess that the rails would become the > property of those cities and suburbs. > > But then again, I am not a lawyer. > > I believe the only rail MCTS owns is whatever may be located at their > storage facilities. ;-) > > The real question is, does WP&L still own the never paved-over rails in the > street in Plymouth, Wisconsin? > > K. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Greig" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 6:26 AM > Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: For Discussion - Who is the owner of > abandoned rails in streets > > >> I highly doubt WEPCo would have anything to do with them now...more likely >> the City of Milwaukee (via MCTS or the Department of Streets) owns them >> now. >> >> --- On Wed, 9/23/09, Larry Allan wrote: >> >>> From: Larry Allan >>> Subject: [milwaukee-electric] For Discussion - Who is the owner of >>> abandoned rails in streets >>> To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org >>> Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 10:41 PM >>> When a construction crew comes upon >>> rails, is WE still the owner and >>> responsible to remove them. See the attached images taken >>> March 26th >>> 2008 at Jackson & Juneau. > > > From DLeistikow at webtv.net Thu Sep 24 22:50:39 2009 From: DLeistikow at webtv.net (Don L. Leistikow) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:50:39 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: For Discussion - Who is the owner of abandoned rails in streets In-Reply-To: Y Marti 's message of Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:46:16 -0400 Message-ID: <18235-4ABC2FFF-2253@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net> Y Matti and list: Well done. Of note is that WEPCO (Wisconsin Electric Power Company) is now We Energies. For the record, the transmission lines are now owned by American Transmission Company, Inc. Don L. From sbgreig_m1 at yahoo.com Thu Sep 24 22:57:49 2009 From: sbgreig_m1 at yahoo.com (Scott Greig) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:57:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: For Discussion - Who is the owner of abandoned rails in streets In-Reply-To: <18235-4ABC2FFF-2253@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <742629.45275.qm@web65509.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> It'll always be WEPCo to me! --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Don L. Leistikow wrote: > From: Don L. Leistikow > Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: For Discussion - Who is the owner of abandoned rails in streets > To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 9:50 PM > Y Matti and > list:???Well done.? Of note is that > WEPCO (Wisconsin > Electric Power Company) is now We Energies.? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ??? > > For the record, the transmission lines are now owned by > American > Transmission Company, Inc.? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? > > Don L.? ? ??? > > > From DLeistikow at webtv.net Thu Sep 24 23:49:11 2009 From: DLeistikow at webtv.net (Don L. Leistikow) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:49:11 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: For Discussion - Who is the owner of abandoned rails in streets In-Reply-To: Scott Greig 's message of Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:57:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <18231-4ABC3DB7-3966@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net> Scott and list: Yes, I will agree .... the Electric Company will always be WEPCO. Historically it was TMER&L, then .... TMER&T was split off and the Electric Company took the name of the Corporate entity of the Lakeside Power Plant which was Wisconsin Electric Power Company. The traction side of this issue became TMER&T and then M&ST when The Transport Company was sold off to Art Kuesel, the Coal King of Milwaukee and his associates. Ultiimately, it was sold off to Milwaukee County. The above general information is for those who may be without such knowledge. Don L. From DLeistikow at webtv.net Fri Sep 25 23:04:29 2009 From: DLeistikow at webtv.net (Don L. Leistikow) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 22:04:29 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: More Work Equipment In-Reply-To: "Ken and Tracie" 's message of Thu, 17 Sep 2009 01:32:10 -0700 Message-ID: <20983-4ABD84BD-180@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net> Ken: The image ettm003 portable SubStation. appears to be the one which was located alongside the Waukesha Line, a few line poles west of Moorland Road, on the north side of the prow. Don L. From lallan45 at gmail.com Sun Sep 27 23:40:17 2009 From: lallan45 at gmail.com (Larry Allan) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:40:17 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] More TM Rail Exposed Message-ID: Images taken 8-1-08 at S. 2nd & Greenfield -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 58k (59720 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/2grnfld8-1-08a.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 54k (55547 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/2grnfld8-1-08b.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 53k (54489 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/2grnfld8-1-08c.jpg From DLeistikow at webtv.net Sun Sep 27 23:53:48 2009 From: DLeistikow at webtv.net (Don L. Leistikow) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:53:48 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: More TM Rail Exposed In-Reply-To: Larry Allan 's message of Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:40:17 -0500 Message-ID: <22303-4AC0334C-728@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> Larry Allan and list: Very interesting. To those of you who are fortunate enough to encounter TM rails at such pavement openings, please carry a measuring tape. Then measure the width of the rail base, then measure the height of the rail. A table of rail measurements will reveal the weight of the rail. Obviously, flanged rail, commonly used on curves and in crossover trackwork, will weigh more due to the extra material in the flange. It is the simple T rail from which the weight is determined. Where lengths of T rail are exposed, the weight may be visable on the 'web', as rolled at the foundry. fwiw ..... Don L. From sbgreig_m1 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 28 00:09:34 2009 From: sbgreig_m1 at yahoo.com (Scott Greig) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:09:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: More TM Rail Exposed In-Reply-To: <22303-4AC0334C-728@storefull-3173.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <506867.89853.qm@web65513.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> My experience with rail pulled from streets after many years (Chicago streetcar rail and CNS&M crossing rail in Kenilworth come to mind) is that by the time it's pulled up the rail is so deteriorated that any roll marks on the web are long since obliterated. Speaking of old TM rail, is that little stub of Lakeside Belt Line track just east of South Lake Drive still in place? It was embedded in the bike path and ran a few feet east to what would have been the plant fence. It included part of a switch, as I recall. --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Don L. Leistikow wrote: > From: Don L. Leistikow > Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: More TM Rail Exposed > To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org > Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 10:53 PM > Larry Allan and > list:???Very interesting.? ? ? > ? > > To those of you who are fortunate enough to encounter TM > rails at such > pavement openings, please carry a measuring tape.? > Then measure the > width of the rail base,? then measure the height of > the rail.? ? ? ? ? ? > > A table of rail measurements will reveal the weight of the > rail. > Obviously, flanged rail, commonly used on curves and in > crossover > trackwork, will weigh more due to the extra material in the > flange.? ? ? ? ? > ??? > > It is the simple T rail from which the weight is > determined.? Where > lengths of T rail are exposed, the weight may be visable on > the 'web', > as rolled at the foundry.? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? > > fwiw ..... Don L.? ? ? > > > From yance at oldmilwaukee.net Mon Sep 28 00:15:33 2009 From: yance at oldmilwaukee.net (Y Marti) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 00:15:33 -0400 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] A few pictures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090928001533.15965hqvzey2rn8c@horde.oldmilwaukee.net> Instead of posting these pictures, I thought I'd link to a few I just put up here: http://oldmilwaukee.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=244 I thought the list might find some interest in these although I'm not exactly sure where the North Shore yards pictured were. They were somewhere in Milwaukee. From sbgreig_m1 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 28 11:55:11 2009 From: sbgreig_m1 at yahoo.com (Scott Greig) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:55:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: A few pictures In-Reply-To: <20090928001533.15965hqvzey2rn8c@horde.oldmilwaukee.net> Message-ID: <372.43684.qm@web65505.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> That's Harrison Street yard, on the south side of Milwaukee. At S. 5th Street and Harrison Avenue (yes it's an Avenue), it was where the CNS&M came off of its private right of way and entered 5th Street. The shop building was torn down in 1968 and the site is now a trucking company yard. --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Y Marti wrote: > From: Y Marti > Subject: [milwaukee-electric] A few pictures > To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org > Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 11:15 PM > Instead of posting these pictures, I > thought I'd link to a few I just? > put up here: > > http://oldmilwaukee.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=244 > > I thought the list might find some interest in these > although I'm not? > exactly sure where the North Shore yards pictured were. > They were? > somewhere in Milwaukee. > > From DLeistikow at webtv.net Mon Sep 28 12:30:09 2009 From: DLeistikow at webtv.net (Don L. Leistikow) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:30:09 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: More TM Rail Exposed In-Reply-To: Scott Greig 's message of Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:09:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8776-4AC0E491-4390@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net> Scott G: The location of which you speak; is at the street level front gate? I haven't been over there in ages but, will take a look the next time that I am over that way. Perhaps someone who lives or travels in that area, may get there before I do! Track reconstruction from the late '30's on, was done mostly with heavier rail set in concrete. It appears that the idea was to never again find it necessary to do track maintenance or rebuilding. Don L. From sbgreig_m1 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 28 12:43:22 2009 From: sbgreig_m1 at yahoo.com (Scott Greig) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:43:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: More TM Rail Exposed In-Reply-To: <8776-4AC0E491-4390@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <649130.84453.qm@web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> No, this is adjacent to the north end of the power plant property. The track in question was part of the line that crossed over S. Lake Drive and entered the power plant at the north end. It was trapped in the paving of the bike trail. --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Don L. Leistikow wrote: > From: Don L. Leistikow > Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: More TM Rail Exposed > To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org > Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 11:30 AM > Scott G:? The location of which > you speak; is at the street level front > gate?? I haven't been over there in ages but, will > take a look the next > time that I am over that way. > > Perhaps someone who lives or travels in that area, may get > there before > I do!? ? ? ? ? > > Track reconstruction from the late '30's on, was done > mostly with > heavier rail set in concrete.? It appears that the > idea was to never > again find it necessary to do track maintenance or > rebuilding.? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ??? > > Don L.? ??? > > > From x779 at webtv.net Mon Sep 28 13:17:47 2009 From: x779 at webtv.net (LouRugani) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:17:47 -0000 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Milwaukee Connector - Downtown Streetcar Message-ID: The Milwaukee Connector www.milwaukeeconnector.com will hold an informational open house for the public to review and comment on the latest plans for a downtown Milwaukee streetcar line. Thursday, October 8th, 2009 3 to 7 pm CDT Zeidler Municipal Building Broadway Entrance 841 N. Broadway Milwaukee While the day and time might preclude many working people from attending, hopefully many of those interested will be able to attend and look over the plans and offer their comments. Wheelchair-accessible. Sign-language interpretation or other special needs can be accomodated by calling 414-299-9700 by October 5. (Apologies for the need of multiple postings.) From DLeistikow at webtv.net Mon Sep 28 14:42:01 2009 From: DLeistikow at webtv.net (Don L. Leistikow) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:42:01 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Fwd: From the "What If?" department... In-Reply-To: Rick Murphy 's message of Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:15:41 -0500 Message-ID: <8777-4AC10379-3820@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net> Rick: As this question brings up historical purpose .... I'm including the m-e list for the record. Route 10 Wells~Downer was one of the longer lines in the City of Milwaukee and its suburbs. Between Capitol Drive at Downer Avenue and its western split end's of line, they divided at 52nd and Wells Streets, operating into Wauwatosa to the end of line at the County Hospital on Watertown Plank Road, about the 8600 block. The West Allis line was on private right of way just west of what is 52nd St., running south to the base line which was Fairview Avenue west of Hawley Road. Street running resumed on Fairview to 68th Street where private right of way resumed to a line of 70th Street, turning south on the prow where it then continued on prow next to the east line of S. 70th street which was encountered at W. Adler Street. The prow continued to Greenfield Avenue, turning west where the line re-entered the street. This was also the west line of the massive Allis-Chalmers complex. Operating west on Greenfield to the State Fair Park, the line then turned south on S. 81st Street to Lapham where it turned westward, again. The West Allis Car Station was built at 84th and Lapham. The line continued westward and resumed operation on the prow at 89th Street. Continuing westerly, the line briefly sauntered southwesterly, returning west again to what would have been 100th street. Here, the line turned north a few hundred feet and made connection with the 'new' Rapid Transit Line at what was then designated as West Junction. The above street references are based upon the last names designated for easy recognition by the reader. References to historic names of places, such as Town of Wauwatosa or that 68th street was originally 59th street, were not included in this disertation. Getting to the point, the reason for Route 10's longevity, is not simply the prow operation but, also the 'anchor' of the Wells Street Viaduct, some 2100 feet in length and rising some 90 feet in height, also contributed to its longevity. I should also mention that a great deal of track reconstruction was done to the Wells Street portions of Route 10 and to the street itself. Much of the route was reconstructed in concrete, which was not the case in the track maintenance north and east of Jackson & Wells streets. That the final configuration of Route 10 Wells, truncated to end of line at Jackson, thence looping via Jackson, Mason, Water and returning west on Wells, was the eastern end whereas, the Wauwatosa branch ended at Harwood Avenue and the West Allis branch ended at Greenfield Avenue and prow adjacent to S.70th Street. The conundrum here is that Route 18 traditionally ended at S. 70th street and back in the 1930's did turn on the double tracked wye, up the prow to a pair of crossovers. Back then, Route 18 was operated with the deck-roofed articulated trains of #100 through #400 lineage. Something unusual happened on October 3 1943. At that time, Route 18 cars had terminated in the street, at a single track bracketed by twin Safety Islands. That was removed and the double track restored. The event of this day was that the ends of line were reversed. Route 10 cars changed ends here and the Route 18 cars took over the service to the then eno of line at 92nd and Lapham. Why, who knows? Ridership to downtown may have been bolstered and surely Route 10 ridership ultimately diminished but, not until the end of WW 2. Why the two lines did not continue to serve downtown West Allis, is a mystery. That would have been the logical thing to do. The other such operation of two lines sharing common trackage were Routes 11 and 16 which came together on Milwaukee's near southside and both operated to the western terminus at 60th and Vliet streets. It doesn't make sense! Never-the-less .... the last reprise for Route 10, was the construction of Milwaukee County Stadium which brought Major League Baseball to the Metro area. For a look at County Stadium, the motion picture, "Major League" was filmed there as the Home of the Cleveland Indians. Bob Uecker as the play by play announcer, was priceless. A single track was constructed on the old Rapid Transit right of way for car storage while the game was in progress. The original track ended at the top of grade, short of the Hawley Road bridge. Shortly thereafter, the spur was extended to the Hawley bridge. That track was filled out to capacity, on game days. The track switch was located just west of the Soldier's Home curve. Watch for photos of Route 10 cars as the regulars carried black on white run numbers whereas, the Baseball Extras carried white on black run numbers. While the regular cars were stationed at the Kinnickinnic Car Statiion, the extra Baseball cars were operated from the National Car Station. Storyline ... One operator (motorman) told me of his experience; he was the first car to enter the layover track and was thus way back at Hawley Road. With nothing to do for several hours, he fell asleep. Waking up after sundown, he discovered that there were no cars in front of him. They were long gone! He ran his empty car back to the Car Station. The assigned Supervisor was remiss in not counting out the 'hold' cars at the end of the game. The topography of the right of way was such that the Hawley Road stop and trackage were not visable from the Soldiers Home/Stadium curve and the trackside phone box. fwiw.... I do have a list of the final operational cars. Only six were 800's, the balance were 900's. The only remaining car was the W 1, wrecker, based at the Cold Spring Shops. That car was scrapped about four years later. Don L. Leistikow From sbgreig_m1 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 28 14:58:52 2009 From: sbgreig_m1 at yahoo.com (Scott Greig) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Fwd: From the "What If?" department... In-Reply-To: <8777-4AC10379-3820@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <167587.2494.qm@web65508.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Some years ago I obtained copies of the retirement information for TM's rail assets (how far back, I don't remember) and sorted the streetcar retirements by date. (Note that this was before I had access to Excel, so I had to do it all by hand!) Looking back, I do seem to recall that the 800s and low 900s were dropping out like flies in the last year or two. I should look up that information again and add details to the list, like I did with certain Chicago "L" cars...gave a better idea of why certain cars went when they did. --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Don L. Leistikow wrote: > From: Don L. Leistikow > Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Fwd: From the "What If?" department... > To: "Rick Murphy" > Cc: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org, emory1522 at wi.rr.com > Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 1:42 PM > Rick:???As this > question brings up historical purpose .... I'm including > the m-e list for the record.? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ??? > > Route 10 Wells~Downer was one of the longer lines in the > City of > Milwaukee and its suburbs.? Between Capitol Drive at > Downer Avenue and > its western split end's of line, they divided at 52nd and > Wells Streets, > operating into Wauwatosa to the end of line at the County > Hospital on > Watertown Plank Road, about the 8600 block.? The West > Allis line was on > private right of way just west of what is 52nd St., running > south to the > base line which was Fairview Avenue west of Hawley > Road.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ??? > > Street running resumed on Fairview to 68th Street where > private right of > way resumed to a line of 70th Street, turning south on the > prow where it > then continued on prow next to the east line of S. 70th > street which was > encountered at W. Adler Street.? The prow continued to > Greenfield > Avenue, turning west where the line re-entered the > street.? This was > also the west line of the massive Allis-Chalmers > complex.? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ??? > > Operating west on Greenfield to the State Fair Park, the > line then > turned south on S. 81st Street to Lapham where it turned > westward, > again.? The West Allis Car Station was built at 84th > and Lapham.? The > line continued westward and resumed operation on the prow > at 89th > Street.? Continuing westerly, the line briefly > sauntered southwesterly, > returning west again to what would have been 100th > street.? Here, the > line turned north a few hundred feet and made connection > with the 'new' > Rapid Transit Line at what was then designated as West > Junction.? ? ? > > The above street references are based upon the last names > designated for > easy recognition by the reader.? References to > historic names of places, > such as Town of Wauwatosa or that 68th street was > originally 59th > street, were not included in this disertation.? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ??? > > Getting to the point, the reason for Route 10's longevity, > is not simply > the prow operation but, also the 'anchor' of the Wells > Street Viaduct, > some 2100 feet in length and rising some 90 feet in height, > also > contributed to its longevity.? I should also mention > that a great deal > of track reconstruction was done to the Wells Street > portions of Route > 10 and to the street itself.? Much of the route was > reconstructed in > concrete, which was not the case in the track maintenance > north and east > of Jackson & Wells streets.? ? ? ? > ? > > That the final configuration of Route 10 Wells, truncated > to end of line > at Jackson, thence looping via Jackson, Mason, Water and > returning west > on Wells, was the eastern end whereas, the Wauwatosa branch > ended at > Harwood Avenue and the West Allis branch ended at > Greenfield Avenue and > prow adjacent to S.70th Street.? The conundrum here is > that Route 18 > traditionally ended at S. 70th street and back in the > 1930's did turn on > the double tracked wye, up the prow to a pair of > crossovers.? Back then, > Route 18 was operated with the deck-roofed articulated > trains of #100 > through #400 lineage.? ? ? ? ? > > Something unusual happened on October 3 1943.? At that > time, Route 18 > cars had terminated in the street, at a single track > bracketed by twin > Safety Islands.? That was removed and the double track > restored.? The > event of this day was that the ends of line were > reversed.? Route 10 > cars changed ends here and the Route 18 cars took over the > service to > the then eno of line at 92nd and Lapham.? Why, who > knows?? Ridership to > downtown may have been bolstered and surely Route 10 > ridership > ultimately diminished but, not until the end of WW 2.? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ??? > > Why the two lines did not continue to serve downtown West > Allis, is a > mystery.? That would have been the logical thing to > do.? The other such > operation of two lines sharing common trackage were Routes > 11 and 16 > which came together on Milwaukee's near southside and both > operated to > the western terminus at 60th and Vliet streets.? It > doesn't make sense!??? > > Never-the-less .... the last reprise for Route 10, was the > construction > of Milwaukee County Stadium which brought Major League > Baseball to the > Metro area. For a look at County Stadium, the motion > picture, "Major > League" was filmed there as the Home of the Cleveland > Indians.? Bob > Uecker as the play by play announcer, was priceless. > > A single track was constructed on the old Rapid Transit > right of way for > car storage while the game was in progress.? The > original track ended at > the top of grade, short of the Hawley Road bridge.? > Shortly thereafter, > the spur was extended to the Hawley bridge.? That > track was filled out > to capacity, on game days.? The track switch was > located just west of > the Soldier's Home curve.? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ??? > > Watch for photos of Route 10 cars as the regulars carried > black on white > run numbers whereas, the Baseball Extras carried white on > black run > numbers.? While the regular cars were stationed at the > Kinnickinnic Car > Statiion, the extra Baseball cars were operated from the > National Car > Station.? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ??? > > Storyline ... One operator (motorman) told me of his > experience;? he was > the first car to enter the layover track and was thus way > back at Hawley > Road.? With nothing to do for several hours, he fell > asleep.? Waking up > after sundown, he discovered that there were no cars in > front of him. > They were long gone!? He ran his empty car back to the > Car Station.? The > assigned Supervisor was remiss in not counting out the > 'hold' cars at > the end of the game.? ? ? ? > > The topography of the right of way was such that the Hawley > Road stop > and trackage were not visable from the Soldiers > Home/Stadium curve and > the trackside phone box.? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ??? > > fwiw.... I do have a list of the final operational > cars.? Only six were > 800's, the balance were 900's. The only remaining car was > the W 1, > wrecker, based at the Cold Spring Shops.? That car was > scrapped about > four years later.? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? > > Don L. Leistikow? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ??? > > ? ? ? > > ? > > > From DLeistikow at webtv.net Mon Sep 28 17:05:08 2009 From: DLeistikow at webtv.net (Don L. Leistikow) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:05:08 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Fwd: From the "What If?" department... In-Reply-To: Scott Greig 's message of Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <20985-4AC12504-3413@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net> Scott G and list: The last year or two, as you wrote ... any car requiring more than an inspection, was deadlined. In example the 999 was long gone or at least, out of service. I'll see what I have in my files. Another great source of car dispositions and general TM history, is Herb Danemann. I have copies of some of his records. Unfortunately, he apparently is not on the internet. Don L From don0731 at gte.net Mon Sep 28 19:12:09 2009 From: don0731 at gte.net (Don Ross) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:12:09 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Fwd: From the "What If?" department... In-Reply-To: <20985-4AC12504-3413@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net> References: <20985-4AC12504-3413@storefull-3172.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <0KQP00KYXF56DDQ7@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net> I could use a dispo list. I just have a few, but a lot missing. Some my notes to you are not accepted by your server. At 04:05 PM 9/28/2009, you wrote: >Scott G and list: The last year or two, as you wrote ... any car >requiring more than an inspection, was deadlined. In example the 999 >was long gone or at least, out of >service. > >I'll see what I have in my files. Another great source of car >dispositions and general TM history, is Herb Danemann. I have copies of >some of his records. Unfortunately, he apparently is not on the >internet. > >Don L From sbgreig_m1 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 28 19:44:02 2009 From: sbgreig_m1 at yahoo.com (Scott Greig) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:44:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Fwd: From the "What If?" department... In-Reply-To: <0KQP00KYXF56DDQ7@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <606734.25776.qm@web65502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Ditto here, because it will take quite a bit of looking to find the list that I started from. --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Don Ross wrote: > From: Don Ross > Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Fwd: From the "What If?" department... > To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org > Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 6:12 PM > I could use a dispo list.? I > just have a few, but a lot missing. > > Some my notes to you are not accepted by your server. > > > At 04:05 PM 9/28/2009, you wrote: > >Scott G and list:? ? The last year or two, as > you wrote ...? any car > >requiring more than an inspection, was deadlined.? > In example the 999 > >was long gone or at least, out of > >service. > > > >I'll see what I have in my files.? Another great > source of car > >dispositions and general TM history, is Herb > Danemann.? I have copies of > >some of his records.???Unfortunately, he > apparently is not on the > >internet. > > > >Don L > > > From lallan45 at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 20:27:38 2009 From: lallan45 at gmail.com (Larry Allan) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:27:38 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Fwd: From the "What If?" department... In-Reply-To: <8777-4AC10379-3820@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net> References: <8777-4AC10379-3820@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: Stadium Curve to Hawley Rd.-images taken on 1-16-08. On 9/28/09, Don L. Leistikow wrote: > Rick: As this question brings up historical purpose .... I'm including > the m-e list for the record. > > Route 10 Wells~Downer was one of the longer lines in the City of > Milwaukee and its suburbs. Between Capitol Drive at Downer Avenue and > its western split end's of line, they divided at 52nd and Wells Streets, > operating into Wauwatosa to the end of line at the County Hospital on > Watertown Plank Road, about the 8600 block. The West Allis line was on > private right of way just west of what is 52nd St., running south to the > base line which was Fairview Avenue west of Hawley Road. > > > Street running resumed on Fairview to 68th Street where private right of > way resumed to a line of 70th Street, turning south on the prow where it > then continued on prow next to the east line of S. 70th street which was > encountered at W. Adler Street. The prow continued to Greenfield > Avenue, turning west where the line re-entered the street. This was > also the west line of the massive Allis-Chalmers complex. > > > Operating west on Greenfield to the State Fair Park, the line then > turned south on S. 81st Street to Lapham where it turned westward, > again. The West Allis Car Station was built at 84th and Lapham. The > line continued westward and resumed operation on the prow at 89th > Street. Continuing westerly, the line briefly sauntered southwesterly, > returning west again to what would have been 100th street. Here, the > line turned north a few hundred feet and made connection with the 'new' > Rapid Transit Line at what was then designated as West Junction. > > The above street references are based upon the last names designated for > easy recognition by the reader. References to historic names of places, > such as Town of Wauwatosa or that 68th street was originally 59th > street, were not included in this disertation. > > > Getting to the point, the reason for Route 10's longevity, is not simply > the prow operation but, also the 'anchor' of the Wells Street Viaduct, > some 2100 feet in length and rising some 90 feet in height, also > contributed to its longevity. I should also mention that a great deal > of track reconstruction was done to the Wells Street portions of Route > 10 and to the street itself. Much of the route was reconstructed in > concrete, which was not the case in the track maintenance north and east > of Jackson & Wells streets. > > That the final configuration of Route 10 Wells, truncated to end of line > at Jackson, thence looping via Jackson, Mason, Water and returning west > on Wells, was the eastern end whereas, the Wauwatosa branch ended at > Harwood Avenue and the West Allis branch ended at Greenfield Avenue and > prow adjacent to S.70th Street. The conundrum here is that Route 18 > traditionally ended at S. 70th street and back in the 1930's did turn on > the double tracked wye, up the prow to a pair of crossovers. Back then, > Route 18 was operated with the deck-roofed articulated trains of #100 > through #400 lineage. > > Something unusual happened on October 3 1943. At that time, Route 18 > cars had terminated in the street, at a single track bracketed by twin > Safety Islands. That was removed and the double track restored. The > event of this day was that the ends of line were reversed. Route 10 > cars changed ends here and the Route 18 cars took over the service to > the then eno of line at 92nd and Lapham. Why, who knows? Ridership to > downtown may have been bolstered and surely Route 10 ridership > ultimately diminished but, not until the end of WW 2. > > > Why the two lines did not continue to serve downtown West Allis, is a > mystery. That would have been the logical thing to do. The other such > operation of two lines sharing common trackage were Routes 11 and 16 > which came together on Milwaukee's near southside and both operated to > the western terminus at 60th and Vliet streets. It doesn't make sense! > > Never-the-less .... the last reprise for Route 10, was the construction > of Milwaukee County Stadium which brought Major League Baseball to the > Metro area. For a look at County Stadium, the motion picture, "Major > League" was filmed there as the Home of the Cleveland Indians. Bob > Uecker as the play by play announcer, was priceless. > > A single track was constructed on the old Rapid Transit right of way for > car storage while the game was in progress. The original track ended at > the top of grade, short of the Hawley Road bridge. Shortly thereafter, > the spur was extended to the Hawley bridge. That track was filled out > to capacity, on game days. The track switch was located just west of > the Soldier's Home curve. > > Watch for photos of Route 10 cars as the regulars carried black on white > run numbers whereas, the Baseball Extras carried white on black run > numbers. While the regular cars were stationed at the Kinnickinnic Car > Statiion, the extra Baseball cars were operated from the National Car > Station. > > Storyline ... One operator (motorman) told me of his experience; he was > the first car to enter the layover track and was thus way back at Hawley > Road. With nothing to do for several hours, he fell asleep. Waking up > after sundown, he discovered that there were no cars in front of him. > They were long gone! He ran his empty car back to the Car Station. The > assigned Supervisor was remiss in not counting out the 'hold' cars at > the end of the game. > > The topography of the right of way was such that the Hawley Road stop > and trackage were not visable from the Soldiers Home/Stadium curve and > the trackside phone box. > > fwiw.... I do have a list of the final operational cars. Only six were > 800's, the balance were 900's. The only remaining car was the W 1, > wrecker, based at the Cold Spring Shops. That car was scrapped about > four years later. > > Don L. Leistikow > > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 45k (47013 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_2877.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 41k (42914 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_2878[1].000.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 46k (47501 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_2879.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 52k (53892 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_2880.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 38k (39520 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_2908.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 35k (36145 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_2911.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 30k (31464 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_2912.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 43k (45033 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/IMG_2913[1].000.jpg From lallan45 at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 21:12:08 2009 From: lallan45 at gmail.com (Larry Allan) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:12:08 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: More TM Rail Exposed In-Reply-To: <649130.84453.qm@web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <8776-4AC0E491-4390@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net> <649130.84453.qm@web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: N.27th St. Transfer Station - exposed track. Images taken 3-31-06. There is talk of redeveloping this area. This location was for years a parking lot for A.O. Smith Co. Note, that it appears that the foundation wall outline can be seen by cracks in the Black Top. Also note,the Concrete Pad which is located near the northern most track. Was this the floor of the Waiting Area? On 9/28/09, Scott Greig wrote: > No, this is adjacent to the north end of the power plant property. The > track in question was part of the line that crossed over S. Lake Drive and > entered the power plant at the north end. It was trapped in the paving of > the bike trail. > > --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Don L. Leistikow wrote: > >> From: Don L. Leistikow >> Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: More TM Rail Exposed >> To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org >> Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 11:30 AM >> Scott G: The location of which >> you speak; is at the street level front >> gate? I haven't been over there in ages but, will >> take a look the next >> time that I am over that way. >> >> Perhaps someone who lives or travels in that area, may get >> there before >> I do! >> >> Track reconstruction from the late '30's on, was done >> mostly with >> heavier rail set in concrete. It appears that the >> idea was to never >> again find it necessary to do track maintenance or >> rebuilding. >> >> >> Don L. >> >> >> > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 47k (48478 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/27term1.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 39k (40326 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/27term2.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 44k (45616 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/27term3.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 54k (55732 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/27term4.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 48k (49465 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/27term5.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 46k (47478 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/27term6.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 48k (50118 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/27term7.jpg -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- Size: 42k (43701 bytes) -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/27term9.jpg From sbgreig_m1 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 28 21:20:58 2009 From: sbgreig_m1 at yahoo.com (Scott Greig) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:20:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: More TM Rail Exposed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <280772.93002.qm@web65503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> 27th and North? ANYTHING will improve that area! Seriously, I hope they're able to, and soon. --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Larry Allan wrote: > From: Larry Allan > Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: More TM Rail Exposed > To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org > Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 8:12 PM > N.27th St. Transfer Station - exposed > track. > Images taken 3-31-06. There is talk of redeveloping this > area. This > location was for years a parking lot for A.O. Smith Co. > Note, that it appears that the foundation wall outline can > be seen by > cracks in the Black Top. Also note,the Concrete Pad which > is located > near the northern most track. Was this the floor of the > Waiting Area? > On 9/28/09, Scott Greig > wrote: > > No, this is adjacent to the north end of the power > plant property.? The > > track in question was part of the line that crossed > over S. Lake Drive and > > entered the power plant at the north end.? It was > trapped in the paving of > > the bike trail. > > > > --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Don L. Leistikow > wrote: > > > >> From: Don L. Leistikow > >> Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: More TM Rail > Exposed > >> To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org > >> Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 11:30 AM > >> Scott G:? The location of which > >> you speak; is at the street level front > >> gate?? I haven't been over there in ages but, > will > >> take a look the next > >> time that I am over that way. > >> > >> Perhaps someone who lives or travels in that area, > may get > >> there before > >> I do! > >> > >> Track reconstruction from the late '30's on, was > done > >> mostly with > >> heavier rail set in concrete.? It appears > that the > >> idea was to never > >> again find it necessary to do track maintenance > or > >> rebuilding. > >> > >> > >> Don L. > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 47k (48478 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/27term1.jpg > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 39k (40326 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/27term2.jpg > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 44k (45616 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/27term3.jpg > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 54k (55732 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/27term4.jpg > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 48k (49465 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/27term5.jpg > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 46k (47478 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/27term6.jpg > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 48k (50118 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/27term7.jpg > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below > -- > -- Type: image/jpeg > -- Size: 42k (43701 bytes) > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/milwaukee-electric/27term9.jpg > > > > From DLeistikow at webtv.net Mon Sep 28 23:36:54 2009 From: DLeistikow at webtv.net (Don L. Leistikow) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:36:54 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Fwd: From the "What If?" department... In-Reply-To: Don Ross 's message of Mon, 28 Sep 2009 18:12:09 -0500 Message-ID: <8775-4AC180D6-6056@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available Url: http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/milwaukee-electric/attachments/20090928/ca2f96ed/attachment.asc From DLeistikow at webtv.net Tue Sep 29 00:04:17 2009 From: DLeistikow at webtv.net (Don L. Leistikow) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 23:04:17 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: A few pictures In-Reply-To: Y Marti 's message of Mon, 28 Sep 2009 00:15:33 -0400 Message-ID: <8776-4AC18741-5344@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net> Y Marti and list; The North Shore photo is of the Harrison Shops at 5th and Harrison where the city street tracks gave way to private right of way. The S. Water Street bridge photo is looking north. The streetcar in the foreground is turning off of Water Street onto Seeboth Street. Within a 'hundred' feet or so, the car will turn left onto S. 1st Street. This difficult road configuratin was later straightened out with an angular set of tracks and roadway running directly to S. 1st and Pittsburgh Streets. A trianguar portion of the landscape remains on the west side of the street and tracks. Incidently, the streetcar in the forefront is an 800 type car. The 600 type car in the next photo, I have trouble identifying the location. I would need more background to do that. Thanks, for posting the pix.... Don L. From don0731 at gte.net Tue Sep 29 02:08:05 2009 From: don0731 at gte.net (Don Ross) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 01:08:05 -0500 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: Fwd: From the "What If?" department... In-Reply-To: <8775-4AC180D6-6056@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net> References: <8775-4AC180D6-6056@storefull-3171.bay.webtv.net> Message-ID: <0KQP00BQ6YEFIV0E@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net> WebTV has a different handling of email. It is not a regular system. AOL is another one that uses a different, We had the problems when I did tech at GTE/Verizon 10 years ago. Time flies. At 10:36 PM 9/28/2009, you wrote: >List: Relative to Don Ross' comment about my server's unacceptd notes; >although this list is not a Yahoo! Group, they have given me endless >trouble and have now virtually cut me out due mainly to my 'heavy >mailbox'. From x779 at webtv.net Tue Sep 29 13:06:53 2009 From: x779 at webtv.net (Louis Rugani) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 17:06:53 GMT Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Downloading photos on WebTV: Message-ID: An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available Url: http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/milwaukee-electric/attachments/20090929/a54f3716/attachment.ksh From jdl896 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 29 16:27:35 2009 From: jdl896 at yahoo.com (jdl896 at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:27:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [milwaukee-electric] PLESE HELP ME!!!!! Message-ID: <338049.51084.qm@web81903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I THOUGHT KEN AND TRACIE FORWARDED MY NEW E MAIL ADDRESS TO THE OWNER LAST WEEK, BUT MAIL HASN'T BEEN COMING TO MY NEW ADDRESS. AS A MATTER OF FACT 10 NEW POSTS ?HAVE JUST BEEN DELIVERED TO MY YAHOO ADDRESS, WHICH WILL BE CLOSED SOON! HERE IS MY NEW ADDRESS: jdl896 at wi.rr.com CAN ANYBODY DO ANYTHING TO GET MY FUTURE POSTS MOVED TO ROAD RUNNER??JOHN From ktjosephson at embarqmail.com Tue Sep 29 16:40:41 2009 From: ktjosephson at embarqmail.com (Ken and Tracie) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:40:41 -0700 Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: PLESE HELP ME!!!!! References: <338049.51084.qm@web81903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <63B4C8424E174CEA8D8583D0C2E76AE9@KTJosephson> I did forward it. I apologize for any inconvenience, but we'll have to wait until Derrick has time to make the change. K. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 1:27 PM Subject: [milwaukee-electric] PLESE HELP ME!!!!! >I THOUGHT KEN AND TRACIE FORWARDED MY NEW E MAIL ADDRESS TO THE OWNER LAST >WEEK, BUT MAIL HASN'T BEEN COMING TO MY NEW ADDRESS. AS A MATTER OF FACT 10 >NEW POSTS HAVE JUST BEEN DELIVERED TO MY YAHOO ADDRESS, WHICH WILL BE >CLOSED SOON! > HERE IS MY NEW ADDRESS: > jdl896 at wi.rr.com > CAN ANYBODY DO ANYTHING TO GET MY FUTURE POSTS MOVED TO ROAD RUNNER? JOHN > From jdl896 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 30 09:43:23 2009 From: jdl896 at yahoo.com (jdl896 at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 06:43:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: PLESE HELP ME!!!!! In-Reply-To: <63B4C8424E174CEA8D8583D0C2E76AE9@KTJosephson> Message-ID: <25395.58264.qm@web81901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks to you both,I'm afraid I have a bad habit of 'when I want things done, I WANT THEM NOW!!!'More than one person has said that I 'obsess' about things, and this 'milwaukee electric' thing is a prime example. I'm sorry if I've been driving you. and the rest of the members crazy!John --- On Tue, 9/29/09, Ken and Tracie wrote: From: Ken and Tracie Subject: [milwaukee-electric] Re: PLESE HELP ME!!!!! To: milwaukee-electric at lists.dementia.org Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 3:40 PM I did forward it. I apologize for any inconvenience, but we'll have to wait until Derrick has time to make the change. K. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 1:27 PM Subject: [milwaukee-electric] PLESE HELP ME!!!!! >I THOUGHT KEN AND TRACIE FORWARDED MY NEW E MAIL ADDRESS TO THE OWNER LAST >WEEK, BUT MAIL HASN'T BEEN COMING TO MY NEW ADDRESS. AS A MATTER OF FACT 10 >NEW POSTS HAVE JUST BEEN DELIVERED TO MY YAHOO ADDRESS, WHICH WILL BE >CLOSED SOON! > HERE IS MY NEW ADDRESS: > jdl896 at wi.rr.com > CAN ANYBODY DO ANYTHING TO GET MY FUTURE POSTS MOVED TO ROAD RUNNER? JOHN >