Pittsburgh Rys 101

[EDWARD H. LYBARGER]

I think Jim has unfortunately let emotion dominate the issue.  Clearly there
are many valid points that the various writers have acknowledged or
disregarded as they choose.  But it can't be accurate to say that the
anti-trolley forces are "evil" and the pro-trolley forces are "good" when
they both engage in the same activities.  The companies were responsible to
their stockholders, the authorities to their political bosses, and what
happened happened.  If I recall correctly, the public did prevail in the Sky
Bus vs. trolley controversy.

With regard to the museum issue, no museum can achieve financial success
directing its efforts to the railfan community.  It's not big enough and
doesn't have deep enough pockets.  I'm not twisting the facts on this or on
any of the other  points.  But I'm sure I'm mentioning a few things that a
lot of fans don't want to hear.  The ethics of taking the $$$ from donors
for the museum is entirely different from a university accepting grants for
research and then attacking the donor in the classroom.  The museum doesn't
really attack donors, nor am I in any way intending to attack Jim.  But I
think Jim would understand it all better if he were able to participate in a
physical, hands-on way.  And naturally I would hope that Jim reverses his
intention to leave - he makes a valuable contribution that is appreciated by
all.  But Jim, please, please understand that this is not as emotional a
thing for most of us as it apparently has been for you over the last few
days.  And I would invite you to phone Bill Fronczek -- it might ease your
mind about railfans and their input to PTM!  Please also understand the I
love to play devil's advocate because I think it broadens the thought
process (and I like it when someone does it with me, as well).  No offense
is intended.

Best regards,
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Holland <pghpcc at pacbell.net>
To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: Pittsburgh Rys 101


> Greetings!
>
> EDWARD H. LYBARGER wrote:
>
> > Was I "evil" for actively opposing the Sky Bus?  I didn't even live in
> > Allegheny County during most of it.  By Jim's standard, though I must
have
> > been!!
>
> Twist what is being said - change the subject - turn the tables.  That is
> exactly what you have done here - above and below.
> You say business at any cost and the evidence is right here in this
exchange
> but I say:  "The ends do not justify the means."
>
> > It's all a matter of who's ox is being gored.  And I will assure you
that
> > there were many abusive railfans pestering PAT in the mid to late '60s;
they
> > in large part provoked the agency's attitude.  Fans stealing streetcars
for
> > joyrides didn't help, either. . .
>
> There's good and bad in every group everywhere, but ({[PAT]}) came in with
a
> bad attitude - others have already mentioned that in this exchange.  Then
({[PAT]})
> did what you are doing - turned the tables to blame the railfans!
>
> > So it cuts both ways.  You can't just say
> > someone is evil for having a different opinion...
>
> Never did - as I have explained over and over and over!
> And why don't you practice what you preach - I have a different opinion of
> ({[PAT]}) because their  METHODS  (from 1964 to ca 1970) were
disreputable,
> unethical, and evil - ignoring the will of the people - but you don't
allow me to
> hold that stance!
>
> > that's what makes America
> > great!  You have to look at both sides of the controversy and
acknowledge as
> > many of the facts as possible.
>
> My statements about ({[PAT]}) were never directed at Ed personally nor
> anyone else; please forgive me.
>
> From past personal exchanges, you have raised many warning flags.  This
gives
> me great concern because you have been an officer of the Pennsylvania
Trolley Museum
> (PTM) in the past and have the potential to be an officer in the future.
Membership
> should be such as to be mutually beneficial but the balance there is lost.
Others
> have complained that a small group of PTM run the operation, disregarding
the
> membership at large, and this seems to be the case.  People leave the
museum and you
> personally say they left because they didn't get their way without
inquiring as to
> who or what situations were involved.  And you talk about universities
being
> unethical for receiving grants - but trolley museums have definitely
jumped on that
> "cash" wagon!  With these grants being in the multiple hundreds of
thousands of
> dollars, membership dues of $35 per year are meaningless.  The big bucks
talk and the
> railfan member has been pushed aside.  I see no reason to be a member any
longer, and
> thus terminate my membership with PTM.  I wish you much success!
> As I have said, the streetcar era is over!
> YOU  may have the last word!
>
> --
> James B. Holland
>        PITTSBURGH RAILWAYS COMPANY (PRCo), June of 1949 -- June of 1953
>        To e-mail *off-list,* please click here: mailto:pghpcc at pacbell.net
> N.M.R.A.  Life member #2190; http://www.mcs.net:80/~weyand/nmra/
>