public hearings-West Liberty

[Vigrass, Bill]

All those PRCo alignments would be considered "impossible" to flatlanders of
the Cleveland Railway.   They simply could not have existed, so I need not
worry about details.
Bill.   

	----------
	From:  John Swindler [SMTP:j_swindler at hotmail.com]
	Sent:  Friday, November 19, 1999 3:18 PM
	To:  pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
	Subject:  RE: public hearings-West Liberty

	Fred Sauerburger asked about maps showing P&CS r-of-way, circa 1900.

	The map I referenced was a reprint of an Allegheny County Atlas
dating to 
	about 1900 located in the State Library in Harrisburg.  Not the best
scale, 
	but interesting.
	Fortunately, I see that Ed L. already has a copy set aside for you.

	(Thanks, Ed.)

	As for other map sources, Carniege Library in Oakland should have
Pittsburgh 
	City Directory on microfilm back to about 1840 (copies also in State
Library 
	in Harrisburg).  Try genealogy or local history room.  Around 1900
several 
	editions included city maps.  When printing, please be sure printer
set for 
	positive printout and 11 x 17 size.  (sounds simple, but I keep
forgetting 
	to do this!)

	One map from horsecar era shows both Pittsburgh Coal Co. RR and
Little Saw 
	Mill Run Coal RR heading south from the South Side.  The latter went
from 
	Temperanceville (West End Circle) along Banksville Road corridor.
The former 
	is the P&CS, and shows "Y" shaped track on top of Mt. Washington to
feed two 
	inclines descending to Carson St. Of interest elsewhere are the
number of 
	railroad stations, which probably indicates local commuter train
service 
	that was wiped out by advent of the electric streetcar.  For
instance, B&O 
	stations from Grant St. include Birmingham (10th St), Soho, Copper
Works, 
	Linden (Bates St.), Laughlin, Marion, Hazlewood, Grove, Glenwood and
then I 
	run off map.

	1899 map has larger scale, but doesn't show P&CS, other then track
on top of 
	Mt. Washington feeding both Castle Shannon incline and Monongahela
incline.  
	Track starts vic. Ruth St. & William St. and extends in almost
straight line 
	to Wyoming and Grandview.  The shorter branch parallels what looks
like 
	Nimick St.  Trolley line to Mt. Washington was via West End circle
and 
	Woodville (back line) - because 40 was not yet built.  Likewise,
Charles St. 
	Loop is already in place, but not Fineview, and East St. didn't
extend much 
	beyond Madison.

	1895 map is clearer. Shows Castle Shannon RR r-of-way to city line,
which 
	was vic. Washington (now Warrington) Ave. and Southern Ave. Shows
what could 
	be incline from horseshoe to vic. Nimick & Lave, plus dotted line
under Ruth 
	St.  Was there also a tunnel???

	Now you've got me curious, Fred, to see what evidence may still
remain of 
	the P&CS in vic. of South Hills Jct.


	On another matter, Pittsburgh Railways Co. map, undated, but approx
1930, 
	shows stub ends for Heidelberg, Thornburg, Sewickley, Spring Hill
(via 
	Rhine?), Evergreen, Bon Air, Beltzhoover, Mt. Washington (both
routes), 
	Arlington, Homeville (map predates rt. 65 acquisition), Evans Ave., 
	Glassport, Corey Ave., Hulton, Schoenville, 36th St & Carson, and a
wye for 
	Etna.  What's confusing is that Talbot Ave. in Rankin (67) shows as
stub 
	rather then loop, nor is connection shown for 68 in McKeesport -
unless this 
	was still a West Penn operated route from Duquesne.

	In the South Hills, on 42 line (for Jim H.'s benefit), Mt. Lebanon
Jct. 
	(latter Dormont Wye) to Neeld Ave. is shown single track with two
passing 
	sidings. On Overbrook line, only one siding is shown between Oak and
South 
	Hills Jct., probably Bon Air.

	In vicinity of Tunnel CH, 42 indicated as double track along current

	alignment.  It shows 38/39 as double track in West Liberty Ave.,
then into 
	single track vic Palm Garden trestle, then splitting -  with left
branch 
	immediately becoming double track connection to 42 vic. Palm Garden
Loop - 
	and single track right branch extending parallel to 42 to lead
directly to 
	single track behind administration building, and then double track 
	connection to 44/47/48 line.
	Now, even I'm confused.  This South Hills Jct. discussion looks like
an 
	issue requiring photographic evidence.

	As for crossovers, ERA map dtd March 4, 1945 shows 28 Heidelberg
crossover 
	on Bell at Woodkirk in Carnegie.  Also shows crossovers not at end
of track 
	on Overbrook vic. Glenbury and at Castle Shannon (was loop a
post-war 
	addition?), 65 on Amity near 8th in Homestead, Braddock near Library
on 55 
	and Library near Bell, Atwood at Forbes, Evans at 5th in McKeesport,
2 
	crossovers at Kennywood Park but only one shown at 10/15 terminal.
Also east 
	of Glenwood Bridge on 56, West Liberty at Dormont Wye, and in
Dravosburg.  
	Missing from the map are crossovers for 32 P&LE Transfer, unless
they were 
	also later additions. Looks like there was a crossover on Smithfield
St. at 
	the P&LE Station stop.  Keep in mind that map not drawn by local
raifan.

	Hope this hasn't muddied waters too much.

	John S.




	>From: Frederick J Sauerburger MD <fjsmd at mindspring.com>
	>Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
	>To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
	>Subject: RE: public hearings-West Liberty
	>Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 18:43:22 -0500
	>
	>
	> >The Pittsburgh and Castle Shannon r-of-way is indicated, and
there is a
	> >trestle across Saw Mill Run in vicinity of Bon Air siding,
probably to 
	>serve
	> >some coal mines along hillside now occupied by South PATway.
	> >In vicinity of what became South Hills Jct., looks like the P&CS
had a
	> >horseshoe r-of-w to line up with back incline.  Also looks like
some "Y"
	> >shaped railroad trackage on top of Mt. Washington to serve two
inclines 
	>for
	> >descent to Carson St.  Better maps are in Allegheny County Court
House if
	> >one is really interested.
	> >
	> >Guess this has gone somewhat astray for dealing with Pittsburgh 
	>streetcars.
	> >
	>
	>Whoa! John! Not at all, at least for me.
	>I grew up crawling all over the sides of the hill around the Bon
Air stop
	>and am very interested in the P&CS, since I used the grading for
one of the
	>mine leads along with a switchback to walk from my home to the Bon
Air 
	>Stop.
	>How can I painlessly (for you) get hold of these drawings of a spur
ACROSS
	>Saw Mill Run (WOW!) from the Bon Air Stop??????
	>
	>Fred (the other Fred) Sauerburger
	>
	>
	>

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