Speed

[Jim Holland]

Greetings!

	Maybe I should have been more specific - among NEW light rail lines the top was 50 
mph OPERATING speed except for Portland which went to 55 mph.  The Bombardier cars used by 
Portland stand head and shoulders above the rest for smoothness of acceleration, braking, 
and comfort of ride.  Doesn't seem like the car is any where near 55 when it is!
	Design speed is something else - Boeings had a design speed of 70.  Don't know the 
design speeds on the others.  Systems that used the off-the-shelf Siemens equipment like 
San Diego, Calgary, Edmonton seem to be struggling just to maintain 50 - seems as though 
they are using every ounce of energy possible just to make it.
	Norristown was considered interurban and is a line that has existed *eternally* so 
to speak.  Again, I should have been more clear to say that I was referring to new 
up-starts, I mean start-ups!  It has already established a high speed pattern and people 
along the line are already accustomed to that.

	I am NOT against speed - but 40 mph on Dormont past Biltmore, Raleigh, Park Blvd., 
Dormont Ave, Dell, Alabama, Kelton stop, Hillsdale, Potomac or any other part inbound to 
the old South Hills Junction would seem very unsafe - the urban environmnet is too dense. 
 People here are accustomed to a low speed operation - very difficult to make that high 
speed with safety.

	Again, I am not against speed but with the design of the PCC it was found that 
rapid acceleration and rapid braking were more desirable than a sustained high speed.

	Bill Vigrass has mentioned that the schedule time for current LRVs from Wash Jct 
to downtown is the same as the PCCs in 1951.  Don't need to be travelling the sustained 
high speed to make the schedule!

	Yes - Norristown operates high speed back-yard.  But it was that way when the 
homes came along.  Dormont was always low speed - very difficult to turn that around into 
high speed.  Besides, the urban concentration in Dormont is much higher than along the 
Norristown line.

Vigrass, Bill wrote:
> 
> Speeds: Norristown High Speed Line is considered lilght rail by SEPTA, and
> the new N-5 cars are rated for 70 mph.  They have four 208 hp motors, the
> most powerful car of its catagory.
> 
> St. Louis BiState Siemens cars were specified with 65 mph capability but I
> believe they operate at 55 mph. By having 65 capability, their acceleration
> up to 55 is better than if they had a 55 mph max.
> 
> Los Angeles Blue Line Siemens 200 and 300 class (301,302 have ATO equipment
> for demonstration purposes only), 52 cars, were specified to have 70 mph
> capability with 65 mph normal operating speed.  Since this line is
> functionally a rapid transit line, fully grade separated, mostly in the
> median of I-105, this is entirely appropriate.  The first cars were
> delivered Jan. 98, but none are yet in service.  I heard that software in
> their AEG propulsion system has been troublesome.  Also LA Metro doesn't
> need them, doesn't want to pay for them, so finds reasons to not accept
> them. I found it odd that Siemens used AEG (Westinghouse) propulsion, but
> evidently Siemens did not have a system suitable for that application at the
> time.
> 
> So there are at least three LRT (incl. Norristown, a special case) lines
> that have 65 or 70 mph capability.  I am all for it.  Speed sells.  There
> are constant improvements in the highway system and in automobiles.  Transit
> must keep up or get ahead, and for the most part, it is not doing so. In my
> opinion, most LRT lines are too slow to attract many motorists.
> 
>         That is what I like about Tren Urbano of San Juan, PR, my primary
> project. It is real rapid transit, with cars specified for 100 kmh (62 mph),
> rapid acceleration (3 mphps, or 1.35 m2 I think is the equivilent).  Married
> pair one, cars 1-2, are aabout 80% complete, will be "substantially
> complete" by our next meeting, Oct. 26-8, and are to be shipped Nov. 1 to
> PR, by road to JAX, thence roll-on roll-off ferry to the Port of San Juan,
> then by road to the yard and shop at Los Lomas.  The stainless steel bodies
> were built in Vienna, Austria, by Semmering-Graz-Pauker (a Siemens comany)
> went by road to Bremerhaven, by ship to Port Hueneme, CA and by road to
> Sacramento.  How's that for travel?  I think these will be the Greatest Cars
> Yet Built, with four 167 hp motors (125 kw), inverter/a.c. drive.  Two
> complete HVAC units each with two compressors, per car (no floor heaters
> needed). Width at floor 10' 3", at belt rail 10' 6", length 75 ft, height
> 12' 6", A Big People Hauler, 72 seats, nominal capacity 180.  The cross
> section is about the same as a LIRR M-1 car (which are 85 ft long). I just
> hope they pass their track tests.    Bill V.----------
> > From:         Jim Holland[SMTP:pghpcc at pacbell.net]
> > Reply To:     pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > Sent:         Thursday, October 14, 1999 7:14 PM
> > To:   pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > Subject:      Re: Speed
> >
> > Greetings!
> >
> > > > From:         Kenneth and Tracie
> > Josephson[SMTP:kjosephson at sprintmail.com]
> >
> > > > To get back on topic, when I was in Pittsburgh last month, the buzz was
> > > > the governors on the LRVs were reset to 31 mph. . . Scott Davis showed
> > > > me signalling hardware which indicated that some sections of the system
> > > > *could* support 70 mph operation. I see no reason why the line isn't
> > > > operated in the 40-60 mph range.
> >
> >         W-H-E-R-E-?-!  Forget it thru Dormont and Beechview.  From Dormont
> > Junction to Cape May trestle there is either too much actual street running, too
> > many curves, or too many grade crossings.
> >       Also, too many curves on the prw from Palm Garden to Beechview Streets
> > in addition to grades.  Any speed approaching 40 mph between Dormont Junction and
> > Palm Garden seems way out of line.
> >       The only section for any speed is between Mt. Lebanon and the Village,
> > and that is severely limited.  And the best place in this section for any real
> > speed is from the Village to Washington Junction.  There is or was a good open
> > stretch between Mt. Lebanon and CS but there are several grade crossings to
> > contend with.  One near CS might warrant crossing arms but the others are smaller
> > and less used crossings.
> >       Maybe 40 mph, but I have an extremely difficult time visioning 70 mph.
> > Outer Library if upgraded and then for maybe one second at 70 mph!  There isn't
> > any light rail today running that fast.  Most new systems held top speed to 50
> > mph; Portland was the first with 55 mph - don't know if others have followed!

James B. Holland
------- -- ---------
        Pittsburgh Railways Company (PRCo), June of 1949 -- June of 1953
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