How Much Did This Thing Cost?

[Greg King]

Very Interesting stuff,

Shows what is printed in papers is what the editor wants printed!

Re the need for new cars in Denver, Hannover (Germany) has just put on the
market there 1979 built Stadtbahn cars that have been replaced by new tech
cars, these cars are like the day they were built and I think, are
compatible (electrically and mechanically) with the Denver cars, would give
them extra cars, at reasonable price virtually straight away!

Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: John Swindler <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
Cc: <RSAUER at aol.com>; <CPLNFSM at NJTRANSIT.COM>; <ALLMANR at aehn2.einstein.edu>;
<csiebert at paonline.com>; <d_kegris at hotmail.com>; <stennyson at webtv.net>;
<elmerfry at desupernet.net>; <JacksoRE at STVINC.COM>; <billvigrass at aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: How Much Did This Thing Cost?


>
> >"Edward H. Lybarger" mentioned
> >
> >Port Authority's current management inherited the West Busway project and
> >fortuitously scaled it back.  It has been open about 6 weeks now and is
> >carrying 5400 weekday riders, 2200 on weekends.  Wasn't it built at
> >near-LRT prices?  Shouldn't you be getting 30,000 or more weekday
> >passengers if you pay that much?
> >
>
>
> There was nothing "fortuitous" about PAT management scaling back the
> "Airport Busway" project.  Full Funding Grant Agreement was signed with
FTA
> in October 1994 for $326.8 million.  That set a limit on federal
> participation.  Which means, if PAT screws up the cost estimates, then its
> the local taxpayers on the hook for any extra costs.  Or just keep scaling
> back the project to keep within authorized funding levels.  At least
that's
> how FFGA is suppose to work.
>
> FTA's August 1996 New Starts report identified project as a 7-mile "West
> Busway" that would carry 17,930 daily riders.  Costs slightly above the
> $326.8 million figure.
>
> PAT's website as of five minutes ago identifies West Busway as a five
mile,
> $326.8 million project.  Seems that neither PAT nor the local papers are
> about to proclaim this to be a $65.4 million per mile "busway" on an
> existing railroad right of way.
>
> Cost for light rail???  Glad you asked that, Ed.  (were you baiting me???)
> Salt Lake City was $312 million or $22 million per mile for 14 miles; St.
> Louis extension thru St. Charles County, Ill is $295 million or $17
million
> per mile for 17.4 miles; recently opened Denver southwest corridor was
> around $177 million or $20 million per mile for 8.7 miles.  These figures
> are from federal government about a year ago.
>
> Let's see:  Denver spent about $177 million and attracts around 13,000
daily
> riders on their new extension.  Pittsburgh taxpayers spent $326.8 million
> and carry 5400 daily riders on West Busway.  And St. Lake City is over
> 19,000 per day as of early October.
>
> And for further comparison, the 2.3 mile East Busway extension is priced
at
> $62.8 million or $27 million per mile.  And that doesn't include any
vehicle
> nor depot costs that are included in above light rail projects.
>
> And for what it's worth, checked the Post Gazette newspaper articles
related
> to the East Busway extension controversy over past three years and found
no
> mention of any light rail extension costs outside the Allegheny County
> border.  That is, only light rail cost estimates/projects reported in PG
are
> East Busway conversion estimates  supplied by PAT.
>
>
> >But maybe it's ALL new math...I just purchased some municipal bonds, the
> >proceeds of which go to Penn Hills.  They have a line item in their 2000
> >budget entitled "Non-Revenue Receipts."  (At the trolley museum, we call
> >what I think this is "In-Kind Donations," but obviously we're not on top
of
> >the politically correct language!
> >
>
> Hmmmm.  Sounds like "creative accounting".
>
> I am reminded, Ed, of a Frank and Ernest cartoon from years ago in which
> they ask their boss "do you want our generally accepted accounting
> principles to show a profit or a loss for the year".
>
>
>
> Just for comparison for those who rely on the Pittsburgh papers for their
> news coverage, this is an article from the Denver newspaper.  Question for
> Jim Holland, how does the spare ratio for Denver compare with MUNI???  and
> PAT????
>
>
> Oct. 17, 2000 - Ridership on the new Southwest Corridor light-rail line
has
> already outstripped traffic projections for 2015, and at least 12 new rail
> cars are needed now to relieve congestion on the line, RTD says.
>
> Passenger traffic at the five stops on the southwest line had been
forecast
> at 8,500 travelers a day. But the count on Oct. 4 was 13,279, or 56
percent
> above the estimate, according to the Regional Transportation District.
>
> "Because of the unexpected high ridership, we are currently operating 29
of
> 31 light rail vehicles ... which is an unacceptable operating condition,"
> agency planning director Liz Rao said in a report prepared for directors.
>
> Other transportation districts throughout the country that operate
> light-rail systems like to reserve 20 percent of their fleet as spares,
she
> added.
>
> At RTD's monthly board of directors meeting today, RTD executives are
> expected to ask directors to appropriate $30 million for 12 more rail cars
> for the popular southwest line, which only has been open since mid-July.
>
> RTD officials say it may take as long as two years to get new cars for
that
> line. Next year, RTD hopes to open its 1.8-mile Central Platte Valley
spur,
> and the agency expects to acquire five rail cars for that segment. The $45
> million spur will link the Auraria campus with Union Station in lower
> Downtown, with intermediate stops at the new Broncos stadium and a
combined
> Pepsi Center-Elitch Gardens stop.
>
> Weekday traffic at the Littleton/Mineral station on the southwest line had
> been forecast by an earlier environmental impact study at 2,000 passengers
a
> day this year and 4,400 daily passengers in 2015, Rao said.
>
> On Oct. 4, the Mineral station served 5,599 passengers, 27 percent more
than
> the 2015 projection and 180 percent above the early estimate for this
year's
> daily traffic, Rao added.
>
>
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