PRCo PCC Colors

[Jim Holland]

Greetings!

	Ken sums it up very nicely - paint patches due to cosmetic work.
	I have photos which show a nice square of paint around the headlight -
Golden Glow removed and sealed beam installed.  Many cars got new paint
on the front end only  --  or some other *body-part.*
	Additionally, as PRCo repainted cars, the paint seemed much darker.

	Maybe I can make a little summary here concerning colors which might
help for understanding.

	I think that the question has to do with the *original* colors on PRCo
and there are *at-least-two* different avenues for arriving at these
colors.

	1)--Members of PTM have taken the time to research this from a variety
of sources and have come up with DuPont (I believe) color equivalents
from the original Mountain Ash Scarlet.  More about this later.
	2)--Photographic evidence on 1700-series cars when almost new:
		A)-John Baxter 1734, brand new-1949
		B)-PCC Trilogy of 1200s-1400s, 1940-1944
		C)-Russel Schram prints, 1952
		D)-Other personal photos

	What is interesting to note is that #2, even though containing
4-different items, shows amazingly similar results between the four. 
But #1 and #2 are definitely *different.*
	I would imagine that many people on this list have A and B and personal
color photos from 1949-1952 - please compare them to 1711 on the PTM
website to see the difference.

	Here is an  IMPORTANT  note  --  even though there is a difference in
color, neither #1 or #2 is Wrong.  PTM has taken an excellent approach
thru identification of the original color and made matches with today's
paint.  A *possible* problem is that the paint formulas and chemistry
are different.  The photographic evidence - 1200s from 1940-1942 on 16mm
color film, the John Baxter photo, the *PCC-Trilogy* - show a different
*tint-to-the-taint* As Grateful-Fred so nicely put it.

	So we are Not talking about a faded model nor a faded prototype, we are
talking original colors.  *St.-Petersburg Trams* had the original color
information as well as the photos.  The choice made was for a color
match to the photos which is different from PTM--1711.  I am satisfied
with the choice that was made.  I would have been satisfied with the
other choice and I am more than grateful and pleased to have a model
made specifically for my hometown system, Pittsburgh Railways Company.

	I think that colors varied wildly from the mid--1950s to the end of
PRCo - and I thought you grew up in Sleepy Hollow!  (Let's see if Don
can find the boundaries for us!!)

> John Swindler wrote:

> > The reason was that I grew up on 64 line, and recalled noting some 1500 and
> > 1600 cars in early 1960s with what looked like various rectangular red paint
> > patches on front and sides.  Without checking slides, 1611 and 1518 come to
> > mind.  Either paint was fading on cars or tint was different - or both.
> > Suspect color shade could change rather quickly with "stuff" coming out of
> > Pittsburgh's smoke stacks, particularly during rainy weather.  And Craft
> > Ave. was downwind from J&L plant.

Kenneth Josephson wrote:

> Let's not forget that some of these cars received partial repaints after
> collisions, etc. Even when using the same source for paint, the pigment can and
> does vary from batch to batch. Ken J.

James B. Holland

        Pittsburgh  Railways  Company  (PRCo),   1930  --  1950
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