Visiting Toronto

[Dietrich, Robert J.]

WOW!  I've been exercising my prerogative and ignoring this Toronto thread
when I noticed this posting.  I read it all the way through looking for my
name and since I didn't find it - well I just had to respond.

First I agree with Professor Jim that this list is supposed to be about
Western PA traction interests.  Lets stick to the subject etc. etc. etc.
But then I think what is wrong with wandering a little?  Last week, or maybe
a little before that, we had a thread going about what makes this a good
list --  The knowledge of the subscribers and the respect we show each
other.  I was convinced of that fact last year when I started asking all
those stupid South Hills Junction questions, now I'm actually able to
contribute, sometimes.

So what harm is a little side trip once in awhile.  I would rather delete
messages that don't interest me than loose the contributions of all you
folks.  Then again if we get a post titled "Lets talk about BCER" it should
get forwarded it to Railspot and we (yes Jim I'm on that one also) can
delete it from there.

Thanks for listening.

Bob

P.S.  Why isn't anyone complaining that MUNI hasn't painted a PRCo PCC?


 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Jim Holland [mailto:pghpcc at pacbell.net] 
Sent:	Friday, September 29, 2000 1:39 PM
To:	pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
Subject:	Re: Visiting Toronto

Greetings!

	Why start another list - lists already exist for talking  ANYTHING 
trolley international:::

	1)--http://www.railspot.com hosts trolley at railspot.com.  Click on
mailing lists and follow the instructions.  Hosted by Alex Postspischil.

	Pgh. list members already on this list include::
		A)--Derrick Brashear
		B)--Charles Brown
		C)--Don Galt
		D)--Greg King
		E)--Ray Lattner
		F)--Fred Sauerburger
		G)--John Swindler
		H)--Self

	2)--http://www.egroups.com/mygroups hosts traction at egroups.com.
This
list is really just a duplicate of the one above. 
interurbans at egroups.com is supposed to be for, of all things,
interurbans only!

	The Pgh. list was originally started for PRCo  ONLY - there were
separate lists for West Penn and Johnstown.  It took considerable arm
twisting  --  Derrick's arm  --  to include these three into one group. 
And this group  --  PRCo, WP, JTC  --  is generally considered to
include the Greater Pittsburgh area and includes the Pgh. Butler
interurbans and even Beaver and the Mon-WP as well.

	I found out about the Pgh. list because Derrick mentioned it on
trolley at railspot.com.  I subscribed because it was specific to PRCo
which is exactly what I wanted.  I started a campaign to get subscribers
and asked Ken Josephson, Don Galt, Charles Brown and others to join
because they had  DEFINITE interests in PRCo.  When I saw John Swindler
and Fred Schneider on on the now defunct electric junction bulletin
board, I invited them to join the Pgh. list as well.  I believe I
invited Tom Parkinson and Bill Vigrass, but we don't hear from Bill
anymore - he may have dropped.  Sorry if I have forgotten any names -
Ray Lattner, Fred Sauerberger - but there may be others that I invited
to join.  I may have even informed Ed Lybarger about the list.
	In private conversations, Ed Lybarger mentions that he has a
definite
interest in traction and its history, especially the social history, but
is now limiting himself to PRCo and West Penn as there is still too much
to learn about these systems and time is limited.  The PRCo list is an
excellent place for that.
	I find the PRCo list a haven - a place where discussions center on
my
personal favorite system and my hometown system as well.  If I want
other information, I have the other lists to go to.

	To write 4-5 paragraphs about the specifics of Toronto [substitute
any
system] and at the end say that Toronto and Pgh had the same color
streetcars  --  therefore, we have just talked about Pgh  --  is total
absurdity!

	And again, to justify a long thread about Toronto as the *price* we
pay
for gaining a new member is irrational.  Didn't know we paid to get new
members.  This also implies that one individual has more value than
another  --  and I absolutely do not buy into that!  Each member is just
as valuable as the next whether contributor or lurker.

	The PRCo list is not at all about where the world ends - it simply
defines what discussion takes place.

	And the PRCo list is not at all about being friends or enemies - it
is
just following the rules set up for the list.  We want everyone to obey
the road rules, why not the list rules?  Not the same?  An old Proverb
says that if we can't handle the little things, we won't do right by the
larger things either!!

	If you want, any one here, any one on the internet, could easily
start
another trolley list at http://www.egroups.com/  or
http://www.smartgroups.com or any of a variety of places - you don't
need Derrick to do it for you.  There is no charge.  But the more lists
of trolleys - the more you get the same people and the more that
cross-posting takes place.  The above are not the ONLY traction lists
but some others are extremely heavy on models which don't seem to be of
interest here.  Nevertheless, some people will cross post to 3-5 lists
so it is possible to end up with 3-5 identical messages.

	This is not new information - we have discussed it before.  I have
given these listings of other trolley lists before - right here.  Many
on this list know these lists but don't seem to share the information. 
I even give complete URLs where possible to make your sign-up easy.  It
is just up to you now.

> Fred W. Schneider III wrote:

> YOU KNOW ME.  I'LL VOTE FOR A DIVERSION AT ANY TIME.  DOES THE WORLD TRULY
END
> AT THE ALLEGHENY COUNTY LINE?  DERRICK, I THINK ITS TIME AGAIN TO SET UP A
NEW
> LIST FOR THOSE OF US ... FRIENDS I HOPE ... WHO WANT TO TALK ABOUT OTHER
> THINGS.

> > > On 28 Sep 00, at 16:10, Kenneth Josephson wrote:

> > > Well, TTC cars had a similar paint scheme to ***Pittsburgh's***
original
> > > paint scheme and, well, uh...never mind.....

> > Donald Galt wrote:

> > And didn't we determine a year or so ago that both Toronto and
> > Pittsburgh had Jane Street destinations?

> > And both are broad gauge. Not the same gauge, but broad.

> > Did the thread maybe get started because of the hoped-for entry of
> > Roger DuPuis into this group? A little drift would be a modest price
> > to pay for that.

> > D2

James B. Holland

        Pittsburgh  Railways  Company  (PRCo),   1930  --  1950
    To e-mail privately, please click here: mailto:pghpcc at pacbell.net
N.M.R.A.  Life member #2190; http://www.mcs.net:80/~weyand/nmra/