[PRCo] Re: Return from the Valley of the Dead

[John Swindler]

>Greg King commented:
>
>
>Hi Fred,
>
>Thanks for the information on the Birney, sounds like it's in a good home
>(hope they eventually get some more track for you to stretch her legs),


I don't comprehend this suggestion.

Why on earth would the Manheim group waste their time and effort even 
considering trying to get some more track for 236?????

Note that Fred the third mentions that the restoration was unhindered by 
museum types.

(yes, I plead guilty of being argumentative, but there is a point here that 
is being missed.  What's the mission statement?)



>obviously you can't hold it in either of the two notches for long as you'll
>melt the resitances but, as it's only 150 feet, I guess there's not much
>chance of that happening.
>
>Thanks again Fred and hope the knee is getting better.
>
>Greg
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Fred W. Schneider III <fschnei at supernet.com>
>To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 12:14 AM
>Subject: [PRCo] Re: Return from the Valley of the Dead
>
>
> >
> > The restoration was unhindered by museum types who feel nothing,
> > absolutely nothing can be changed. The original flooring is gone, having
> > been replaced by a modern resilient material.  Several inches have been
> > shaved off the trolley stands (the building was built first).  It is
> > under wire ... length of line is about 150 feet.  Controllers have been
> > plugged with bolts to prevent operation above 2nd point series.
> >
> > Interesting note on the Lancaster Birneys.  Normally, doors were
> > interlocked with brakes on safety cars.  This car has two door engines
> > and two door valves ... the valve incorporated into the brake valve
> > works the entrance door.  The exit door was never interlocked with the
> > brakes.  I'm not sure whether or not that was a mistake of restoration
> > ... I don't know any CTC men still around that are lucid enough to
> > question.
> >
> > Greg King wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Fred,
> > >
> > > Thanks for that information, I never knew any of that and I'm glad the
>car
> > > was saved, a couple of more questions (since you offered), how well is
>the
> > > car restored (I mean beyond the missing bits, was it a prpoer
>restoration)
> > > and how long is the line it runs on and, lastly, is it under wire?
> > >
> > > I'm interested, having run many Birney's myself at the Birney 
>operating
> > > capital of the World, Bendigo.
> > >
> > > Thanks again.
> > >
> > > Greg
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Fred W. Schneider III <fschnei at supernet.com>
> > > To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> > > Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 12:14 AM
> > > Subject: [PRCo] Re: Return from the Valley of the Dead
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Conestoga Traction Company bought 41 double-door Birneys between 
>1920
> > > > and 1926 and retired them as routes were abandoned between 1939 and
> > > > 1947.  Car 236 was purchased from Miller Junk and Waste Co., to whom
>CTC
> > > > sold it in 1947, by the Lancaster Chapter, National Railway 
>Historical
> > > > Society.  The car was placed on a 30 foot section of t-rail at the
> > > > Landis Valley Museum on Sept. 26, 1947.  The Lancaster Chapter 
>members
> > > > showed little interest in maintaining the exhibit ... one of the two
> > > > poles fell off during trucking to the museum site and it was never
> > > > replaced as long as the NRHS had charge of the car.  I think the 
>roof
> > > > got one coat of paint.  Eventually the Landis Brothers, who owned 
>the
> > > > museum, became superannuated and they sold their museum to the
> > > > Commonwealth of Pennsylvania ... today it is operated as the
> > > > Pwennsylvania Farm Museum at Landis Valley (4 miles northeast of
> > > > Lancaster on PA 272).  At some point in the 1950s, the NRHS deeded 
>the
> > > > car either to the Landis brothers (which would have meant automatic
> > > > transfer to the Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission when 
>the
> > > > museum was sold), or it was a separate sale.
> > > >
> > > > During the warmer months of 1958 the Metropolitan Philadelphia 
>Railway
> > > > Association leased the car from PHMC and moved it first to the Red
>Arrow
> > > > shops at Llanerch, and later to the DVSL/MPRA property at Tansboro,
>New
> > > > Jersey.  Condition went from bad to worse.  The state cancelled the
> > > > lease, and then released it to Railways to Yesterday.  It was moved 
>to
> > > > Louis Buehler's furniture factory in Allentown.  At least it was 
>under
> > > > roof but still absolutely nothing was done.  And many of the parts 
>nev
>er
> > > > returned with the car, the MPRA's attitude being you didn't pay us 
>for
> > > > the work we did therefore you don't deserve to get the whole car 
>back.
> > > > (What work?)  Frustrated, the state eventually moved the car back to
> > > > Landis Valley.  Of course it didn't fit into their theme of a farm
> > > > museum, and it continued to rest derelict in a warehouse.
> > > >
> > > > Sometime around 1990 the Manheim Historical Society (Manheim is a 
>town
> > > > on route 72 some 10 miles north northwest of Lancaster and about 8
>miles
> > > > south of the 20 of the turnpike) leased it from the state.  This 
>time
> > > > work was done.  The car is operable.  I've run it many times.  Some
> > > > parts are still missing but many that are crucial have been found
> > > > elsewhere or manufactured.
> > > >
> > > > Last summer Ben Hershey, who was the prime mover of three men who
> > > > restored it, asked me if I would be willing to run the car for the
> > > > school kids because he was sick.  Because of cancer they had removed
> > > > Ben's voice box, which made it difficult for him to communicate with 
>a
> > > > car full of children. I consented ... told him when I came back from
> > > > Switzerland in September we would set something up. We never did.  
>Ben
> > > > died in October from the spread of the cancer.   Seems they need
>people
> > > > who can run a streetcar and there aren't too many in Lancaster who
>know
> > > > how to run a Birney!
> > > >
> > > > Clear now?  More questions?
> > > >
> > > > Greg King wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Fred,
> > > > >
> > > > > Glad to see you are on the mend, hope it is a speedy recovery.
> > > > >
> > > > > You mentioned running the Conestoga Birney at Manhheim, please
>correct
> > > my
> > > > > ignorance if I'm wrong, but was'nt the only Birney saved a Double
>door
> > > car
> > > > > and I thought that was stuffed and mounted, does it run now? And, 
>if
>so,
> > > > > what's Manheim?
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Greg in Orstralya

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