[PRCo] Re: Politics of Traction Thread

[Edward H. Lybarger]

Oakdale-McDonald was the only link built in a grand scheme to connect
Bridgeville with Holliday's Cove (Weirton) and Steubenville; Pittsburgh
Railways was to have built south to Bridgeville to enable the connection.  I
think it is remarkable that the company lasted at all!

Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org]On Behalf Of Fred
W. Schneider III
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 6:30 PM
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Politics of Traction Thread



The whole West Penn mainline was paralleled by the Pennsylvania
Railroad; the B&O also competed with the mainline between Fairchance,
Uniontown, and Connellsville.  And, of course, the B&O offered much
faster service to from points on the West Penn in Fayette County to
McKeesport than the trolley did. The Greensburg - Irwin - Trafford
service was right beside the Pennsy and, at one time, the PRR had very
decent local service.  Because most people were not going from town
(station) to town (station), the West Penn was strong competition to the
railroad.

Your suggestions were correct.  The trolleys ran more frequently and at
lower cost and stopped more often to pick up the farmer than the trains
did.  (And before you digest that sentence, I've even known the Penn
Central to stop train 616 in eastern Lancaster County on a very regular
basis to drop a certain Amish farmer.)  This sort of service worked as
long as economics mattered.  When we want something really bad, like
using a car, then we dismiss economics saying that depreciation doesn't
count because I need the car anyway.

The Oakdale and McDonald was no at anomoly in any way.  The state was
filled with trolley lines from no where to no place and many of them ran
parallel to railroad lines.  Of course, they were the ones that got torn
up earliest.  If you wish examples, Cititzens Traction from Rouseville
to Oil City to Franklin (versus PRR and Erie); Conneaut and Erie or
Cleveland and Erie (the NYC mainline was the competitor), the Jersey
Shore Electric Street Railway (this actually fed a railroad yard but
didn't have enough business to survive); the Jersey Shore and Antes Fort
(this creature connected the Northern Central or PRR with the city of
Jersey Shore ... a Toonerville that Met All Trains.  And how about the
original Penn Central that ran beside the Pennsy mainline in Cambria
County.  Most of these were gone in the 20s, PC or South Fork -
Summerhill I think quit in 1918.

There was a lot of mileage north of Philadelphia in Bucks County (most
of the Bucks County Interurban Railway), the Doylestown and Easton or
Philadelphia and Easton depending on which year, and the PRT Willow
Grove - Hatboro line that also vanished in the 1920s.  These lines
didn't compete with railroads.  Simply if one farmer in ten could afford
an auto, it was apparently too much competition.  There just were not
enough people in suburban Philly in them thar days.

Derrick J Brashear wrote:
>
> On Fri, 3 Aug 2001, Kenneth Josephson wrote:
>
> > This isn't Western Pennsylvania-related (unless you count the mentioning
of George
> > Westinghouse), but there is an excellent thread going on about the
economic failure of the
> > interurban industry on Laura Heiden's North Shore Line discussion board.
>
> Well, I can easily bring such a thing on-topic.
> >From what appears to be the first message in the thread:
> "why do historians of U.S. industry, transportation and even railroads
> ignore the Interurban Era?"
>
> In many cases much as there were redundant steam railroad lines interurban
> lines in the context of the existing steam lines. At least that's the way
> it looks from here. For reasons which aren't really appropriate for
> discussion here I found myself going through Oakdale and McDonald 3 times
> this week.(*) There was a remote part of the West Penn here; The Panhandle
> Division of the Pennsylvania Railroad also connected the two towns along
> with Pittsburgh, Steubenville, and other places.
>
> What did the trolley bring to the table?
> -Cheaper fares
> -I lack railroad timetables of the right era, but probably more frequent
> headways
>
> The question then is what impact it had on travel in the area. I'm not
> sure.
>
> The wise among you will rightly point out that a small operation in
> isolation like Oakdale-McDonald isn't really a fair example for an
> interurban as neither Oakdale nor McDonald (nor Noblestown) is urban. I
> can only agree, but it was a fine example of an operation entirely
> paralleled by a steam railroad which was fresh in my head. If you want
> other examples, Trafford-Irwin is a good one, and was part of a network
> which connected Pittsburgh with Greensburg (those are both urban, right?
> ;-) Yet that portion fell over early compared to the rest.
>
> Aside from local historians and people like us, this sort of line is
> forgotten.
>
> Extrapolate.
>
> -D
> (*) If you're curious why I ended up out there 3 times this week I'll be
> happy to amuse you offlist. It's not any of the obvious reasons.