3750s etc.
Tom Phillips
tsquare at toad.net
Sun Jan 7 22:53:24 EST 2001
Jim --
Much thanks for this information -- there is alot here to digest
Car 3702 which you list below must have been one of the two 3700's
involved in a "cornfield meet" near Brookside Farms during 01/43 --
no knowledge of the number or dispostion of the other car. (As a
teenager, I remember this wreck -- the death of the operator of
one of the cars was the only immediate casualty -- I don't know if
there were others later. I understand that this accident was the
result of signal operation hampered by sand causing insulation in
the wheel/track circuitry -- perhaps Art Ellis, EHL, or FWS3 can
share some knowledge on this event.)
As you say, there are some inaccuracies in these rosters -- perhaps
several weeks worth of research at PTM's library would be in order.
The following is from Alan R. Lind's "From Horse Cars to Streamliners
-- An Illustrated History of The St. Louis Car Company":
Job # Order Date Cars Orig PRCo # Ship dates unknown
262 03/25/02 60 3001-3060
554A 05/19/05 100 3400-3499
748 04/19/07 50 3500-3549
762A 06/11/07 6 6000-6005 (Trailers)
996 05/05/13 50 4200-4249
1078 04/25/16 50 4350-4399
do do 12 4400-4411 Nee BVTC 400-411
1079 04/25/16 75 A300-A374 (Trailers)
1149 03/30/17 50 A375-A424* (Trailers)
1301 02/06/23 75 4865-4939
1469 12/27/27 15 3800-3814
* Confusion in numbering -- may have been renumbered into
Bxxx and Cxxx series.
PCC info excluded here.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
[mailto:owner-pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org]On Behalf Of Jim Holland
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 1:42 PM
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
Subject: Re: 3750s etc.
Greetings!
> Tom Phillips wrote:
> I was working from memory - I intended to say 3556 which, per
> "Electric Railroads" (Number 20 - July 1952) dates this car to
> 1915. This experiment must have been relatively successful as
> 1) the 3700's followed just one year later and 2) the car was
> in service at least through WWII. This source also states the
> carbuilder to be Standard. Could this have been a rebuild of
> a trailer or two? The other fact that is interesting is that
> the car was only 7'9" wide,
>> Jim wrote:
>> 3556 is listed as 1910 which is the same as *one--source*
>> indicates for the 3600s.
> The date of 1910 OK for 3600's but I question 1910 for 3556 unless
> the 1915 date which I cited above is a rebuild date. Would the
> construction dates for the trailers offer any insight here? Also,
> would the 3556 predate the powered trailers you referenced. I have
> no dates. When were the 4200's built (I'm guessing 1912)?
ROSTER---#3
In addition to the Electric Railroads which you mention, I have
3(?)-other rosters. One is type-written and is complete as of
1944--only and the latest PCCs it lists are the 1400s. Here is a quote
from the credits:: "Typed for ELECTRANSIT NEWS, District of Columbia
Chapter, NRHS. Source material: Rosters by Henry J. Leinbach, Jr, and
Charles J. Dengler, of Pittsburgh, PA." Charles Dengler is a founding
member of the Museum.
The above roster states a 1910 date for 3556 and also states it was
*built* by the *Company Shops.*
For 3600--3619, no date is given.
01)--- Trailers A200--A249 built 1910
02)--- Trailers A250--A299 built 1912
03)--- Trailers A300--A424 built ????
04)--- Trailers A600--A624 built 1916
05)--- 4200--4249 -- 1910!!
06)--- 4250--4349 -- 1915!!
07)--- 4350--4399 -- 1917
08)--- 4400--4411 -- 1917
09)--- 4420--4423 -- 1910--1912. Ex-trailers built as power
cars 1910--1912!
10)--- 4700--4799 -- 1917
ROSTER---#2
Another roster was printed in *THE TRANSFER TABLE* Winter of 1965.
Quoted credits:: "This roster not possible w/o help of: Harry C.
Bartley, Charles Dengler, Haenry Leinbach Jr, Charles Murphy, O.R.
Cummings. Signed Harold Buckley Jr, 10--Aug--1963.
3556 -- built 1915 by PRCo.
3600--3619 built 1910 by Kuhlman
Using the numbers above this roster lists building dates as:
01)--- 1910
02)--- 1912
03)--- 1917
04)--- 1912 - made from 3200s spliced
Numbering system varies from above list:
05)--- 4200--4249 -- 1914
06)--- 4250--4299 -- 1914
07)--- 4300--4349 -- 1915
08)--- 4350--4399 -- 1916
09)--- 4400--4411 -- 1917
10)--- 4420--4423 -- 1912
The above 2-rosters are on several sheets; the following roster is on
85 pages so I tend to consult the ones above first!
ROSTER---#1
This roster lists *individual car numbers* for each group and shows
arrival date, in service date, and disposition date in addition to
reason and type of disposition where at all possible. This MIGHT be
original PRCo records, or something compiled from same. DO NOT know
actual source.
3556 -- 10.29.1915, Standard Steel-Pressed Steel listed as builder.
It lists the length as 35-feet, 8-1/4 inches. That should probably be
55-feet. It was burned for scrap at Ingram on 01.28.1946, almost
55-years ago!
3600 herselve arrived on 04.17.1910 and was burned for scrap at Castle
Shannon on 09.15.1928. 3601 actually arrived on 01.23.1910 and was
burned for scrap at West Park Car House on 10.30.1928. The latest
delivery was July--1910.
3702 was the first of this series to arrive on 01.05.1918, 83--years
ago! She was scrapped because she was damaged in a collision that
possibly resulted in a fire, scrap date 01.18.1943.
4200 herself arrived on 04.03.1914, was loaned to Beaver Valley
Traction Company on 12.01.1915 and was returned in May of 1917. She was
converted to one man on 07.26.1933 and disposed of on 04.30.1953.
St.-Louis Car is the builder. This is listed as Group-23, 4200--4249.
Group--24: 4250--4299 Jan--Oct--1915
The above group had the body design of the trailers.
The following cars had slightly different body design.
Group--25: 4300--4349 Mar--Dec--1915
Group--26: 4350--4399 Jan--Nov--1917
Group--27: 4400--4411 -- Purchased second--hand from Beaver Valley
Traction and they arrived in Pgh Jan--Mar--1923; building date is
probably 1915--1916. These **MAY** have similar body style to
trailers, 4200--4250.
Group--28:
4420 built 01.23.1911 as trailer A217
4421 built 03.10.1911 as trailer A242
4422 built 11.28.1913 as trailer A283
4423 built 12.03.1913 as trailer A284
Notes say all the above were converted to Motors on 05.18.1928!! But I
have an article showing conversion in 1914!!. All these cars were
disposed of in March and April of 1932.
Group--29: 4700--4799 Aug-1916--Oct-1917.
James B. Holland
Pittsburgh Railways Company (PRCo), 1930 -- 1950
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