[PRCo] Re: Rt. 49 and Brownsville Ave. single track

[John Swindler]

>Jim Holland commented:>
>
> > John Swindler wrote:
>
> > Concerning 46-Brownsville
>
> > Stumbled across Complaint Docket #1571 in the State Law Library today. 
>It's dated 19 Aug 1918 and involves City of Pittsburgh, Pitts. Rys. and 
>Public Service Commission.
>
> > 49 Beltzhoover operated via tunnel. (so a Jones car signed for 49 would 
>be appropriate for a South Hills Junction module.  But apparently not 46) 
>306B East Carson along Brownsville Ave. to Allentown Dist.  That became 46 
>Brownsville and eventually 49 Beltzhoover.
>
>	Interesting!  49-Beltzhoover runs thru tunnel and South Hills Jct. to 
>(???) and is operated via low-floor cars.  This was 1918 to (???).  The 
>46-Brownsville was operated by low floors via Carson and present 
>[New]-Arlington to (???) in approximately the same time frame as the 
>49-B-thru the tunnel.  Then PCCs start operating the 46-line.  The 49-line 
>thru the tunnel must have been dropped and then the 46-Brownsville was 
>renamed to 49-Beltzhoover  *-probably-*  because the 46-line in Allentown 
>was extended to include the outer portion of the 49-tunnel and the patrons 
>could easily identify this!  Does this make sense?!?!<GGG>
>


As you say further on, Jim, "takes yer choice!"

To back up a bit, we know the the numbers associated with the various PRC 
routes from the 1950s on - because we were there, and for some also applies 
for 1940s and maybe even into the 1930s.  That is, the Negley-Center route 
to Highland Park was numbered 71 and came out Fifth Ave. to Oakland, then 
Craig, Center and Negley to Highland Park.  71 had always been the 
Negley-Highland route.  Always had been, or so it seemed.

So I had always ASSUMED that the route numbers were somewhat 'cast in 
concrete', with perhaps some minor adjustments over time.  And must admit 
that was always somewhat curious about the 'missing numbers', such as 70, 
72, 74, 79, 80 etc.

Perhaps the first inkling that things may not be what they seem to be was 
when Don G. posted a route listing from a B. Arnold report that lists over 
100 routes - and many could not be matched up with the 1-99 series of route 
numbers that we associated with PRC rotues.

Then John Bromley comes up with 9 Perrysville Charles as a short turn on 8 
Perrysville.  But wasn't 9 the Charles St. shuttle?  Ohhh.  Well, I'll be 
%#*&*.  Apparently route numbers not cast in concrete.  PRC actually reused 
at least one.

And then Bob provided us with a link to the Pittsburgh book/map site with 
stuff from 80-100 years ago, including couple B. Arnold reports and a 1916 
guidebook on getting about Pittsburgh.

All sorts of surprises.  23 through 35 were West End routes that crossed 
Point Bridge.  At some later point, 32 reused for P&LE Transfer and 35 
reused for Library.  4 and 5 went up Troy Hill.  5 later reused for Spring 
Hill.  36 was Fairhaven (Frederick St.; or where the South Busway ends).  
Later reused for Drake.  65 and 66 were short turns on 64.  65 reused for 
Munhall-Lincoln Place.  And it seems that 80 is wandering all over the 
place.  Must confess to being clueless about this one.

>From a 1917 PUC Complaint Docket, Larimer Ave. route (loop) was numbered 98 
and came out Penn to East Liberty, rush hours only.  It was combined with 86 
East Liberty Express which came out Liberty Ave. ("to relieve congestion in 
central East Liberty district") Four cars were added to 79-91 
Forbes-Shady-Penn belt line to increase peak service to 7.5 minutes and thus 
replace 98-Larimer Ave. cars on Penn Ave.  And later 98 reused for 
Glassport.

So route numbers/names not 'cast in concrete', and it is begining to appear 
that a lot of route rationalization occurred during late teens in 
Pittsburgh.  And as for 46 Brownsville, as you said Jim, may well be a case 
of:  "Takes yer choice!"

Probably also means that I need to make an appointment with Ed to visit the 
PTM archives and ask to browse through the route cards in some detail.  
Because to add to Ed's two sayings he recently posted, my favorite is 
Weiler's Law: "Nothing is impossible for the person who doesn't have to do 
it".  This is not something to further burden Ed.


(note for Ed:  PUC report books can be checked out of Law Library, if you 
catch my drift!)


>
>	Tom Parkinson's book on Pittsburgh lists the following PRCo cars as built 
>by Pressed Steel:
>
>	4100--4149
>	4825--4864
>	5000--5099
>
>	A roster by Charles J. Murphy of 1944.09.18 also lists the following by 
>Pressed Steel:
>
>	4250--4349
>
>	A third roster compiled by Harold Buckley Jr, 1963.08.10, acknowledges
>the help of Harry C. Bartley; Charles Dengler; Henry Leinbach, Jr;
>Charles J. Murphy; O.R. Cummings.  This roster acknowledges Tom's
>listing, lists 4259--4349 as Standard Steel, and lists
>4300--4349--as--Pressed--Steel.
>
>	As Popeye says:  "Takes Yer Choice!!"
>
>	Wonder if any of those cars were delivered with
>cracked//scratched//broken  headlights?!?!
>
> > 55 Second Ave. to Homestead only
> > 56 Second Ave. McKeesport
> > 408 Glassport-McKeesport-Wilmerding (later 97)
> > 409 McKeesport Shuttle (later Evans Ave.)
>
>	The 3-digit numbers were never displayed on the cars, correct?
>	These were ledger//accounting//(spread--sheet--entries) for
>identification purposes, correct?

YES

>	These 3-digit numbers were listed in the Bion J. Arnold report which Don 
>McGalt quotes frequently and which many of us have, correct?
>

YES

> > 50 Carson (route to 30th St. as we knew it?)
>
> > 52 Second Ave., 10th St. Bridge, Carson to 36th St. (yes, wasn't a 
>shuttle)
>
>	But was a shuttle later from 30th to 36th, correct??
>

YES

> > 83  Short turn on 82 around Herron Hill.
>
>	AKA--85??
>

NO, short turn on 82.  85 was different routing to Herron Hill.

> > 81 Oakland District Loop (later Atwood)
>
>	Wonder if this was like a shuttle between Oakland and the outer end of the 
>81?
>

PROBABLY.  Again, I need to visit "little Washington" (PTM) to quote the 
editor of the Monongahela Valley Republician.

> > And here's one for Jim:
>
> > 36 Fairhaven
>
> > Also for Jim:
>
> > 42 Dormont-Beechview
> > 38 Mt. Lebanon (with stops listed to Castle Shannon)
>
>	Thank You, Sir!!
>	Can you tell us more about the 36-Fairhaven?  Just rush hours?


DON'T KNOW.  But Fairhaven was at Frederick St.


>	Can we assume that the 38-line was one unit from Castle Shannon to 
>downtown over Washington Rd and W. Liberty?
>

YES, with reservation.  West Liberty Ave. between Brookline Jct. and end of 
line may not have been developed yet.  Need to go into the Arnold report and 
start looking at car assignments.


> > About the same time, there was another complaint filed by City of 
>Pittsburgh that involved interurban freight stations.
>
> > Pittsburgh Railways freight station on Grant St. at corner of First.
>
>	Didn't a tunnel exist near 3rd//Diamond//Market//Ferry Streets which was 
>used by trolley--freight from Grant to Point??
>

NOT THAT I KNOW OF.

John
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