[PRCo] Re: And Speaking of Rejected Cars.....

[Jim Holland]

>> HRBran99 at aol.com wrote:

>> Provisions in the Federal antitrust laws was the main reason. I was told by
>> many people in the PATransit organization during the 1970s that Westinghouse
>> controls were far superior. However, US law prevented purchase of controls
>> (by PRCo) from only one supplier.

	YES  --  this has been mentioned before  --  right here on the  list 
--  by Herb!

	If I understand this, antitrust laws prevent monopolies from forming,
not individuals--companies buying from one supplier.

	Birmingham  --  Pure Westinghouse.
	Pacific Electric  --  Pure Westinghouse.
	San Diego  --  Pure Westinghouse
	Louisville  --  Pure Westinghouse.
	Cincinnati  --  Pure Westinghouse
	Cleveland  --  Pure Westinghouse
	Johnstown  --  Pure Westinghouse
	Dallas  --  Pure Westinghouse
	El Paso  --  Pure Westinghouse
	British Columbia  --  Pure Westinghouse
		(Western suburb of Pgh.!<G>)
	Toronto  --  Pure Westinghouse
		(Northern suburb of Pgh.!<G>)
			(*Should*  therefore be GE)
	Montreal  --  Pure Westinghouse

	Illinois Terminal  --  Pure GE
	Newark  --  Pure GE
	Brooklyn  --  Pure GE
	Shaker  --  Pure GE

	The Superior argument  --
		Excerpts from pg.161, 2nd column,
			*PCC  The  Car  That  Fought  Back:*

	[Starting at end of first column:]  "Numerous times over the last two
decades we have heard the lament that the GE commutator control was far
less reliable than the Westinghouse product, with the echoes coming
generally from a full chorus of maintenance workers.  The only operating
data available disclosed that the Westinghouse equipment had a
30-percent higher failure rate in service.......  Both systems
apparently scored high marks for durability, but not necessarily for
maintainability.  The Westinghouse accelerator was very easily
serviced.  All moving parts and resistor elements could be changed out
in a matter of minutes from an inspection pit in the carbarn. 
Operations which would have been simple with the Westinghouse product
were anything but simple with the General Electric controller.  Just to
true up the commutator required removing control cabinet parts, power
and air lines, bolts, and lifting the 300--pound unit from the car while
the mechanic savored the dirt falling down his neck.  If there was any
higher incidence of failures with GE cars, it may have resulted from
postponing routine maintenance until the car failed in service."

	"In reality, both sets of controls were far more reliable than anything
previously produced."

	"Truly, the two manufacturers [Westinghouse & GE] were able to produce
control packages that were just what the doctor ordered."

	Anyone could have a preference for certain equipment//hardware, and
from different perspectives - maintenance, operations, etc., but that
does not necessarily reflect the quality of the item.

	This has been discussed in detail here on list, and all the above has
been quoted here on list as well.  I have 100,000--bytes of TXT files on
this very subject (that's because full headers are saved when saving
ASCII and there are quotes repeated, but obviously this is still of good
size for a discussion.)

> Kenneth Josephson wrote:

> I've read and heard this, too. But there were a number of companies (North Shore
> Line and Milwaukee Electric come to mind, as well as several of the operators in
> the NYC area) that swore by GE. Milwaukee dumped their newest Pullman-Standard
> trackless trolleys in favor of a mixed fleet of Marmon-Herringtons and
> Pullman-Standards for the last several years, when all the Pullmans were
> sufficient to cover all runs. Why? Because the newest Pullmans from the order
> were Westinghouse equipped and the Transport Company wanted an all GE fleet
> until the new diesel coaches arrived in 1965.   Paul Ward noted on another
> discussion list that many trackless trolley operators seemed to like GE equipped
> coaches over Westinghouse units when all other things were equal.

> I have heard and read that Westinghouse controls needed more frequent "tuning"
> than GE, but that Westinghouse equipment was much easier to overhaul than GE's
> when major repairs were necessary.

> Do we have any "shop jocks" on this list? :-) I'd like to hear from the front
> line people on this debate. Ken J.

====================
Jim