[PRCo] Re: Black on the PCCs

[John F Bromley]

Oops, Jim, a boo-boo.  The 1630 in Cox's book on P53 is just very lightly
exposed.  It's standard red.  I've seen this photo elsewhere with better
reproduction, but you can tell even in the Cox book.

JFB

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Holland" <pghpcc at pacbell.net>
To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 4:02 PM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Black on the PCCs


>
> Hi!
> First off, it is chernak Green, Not black!
>
> What confuses a determination from pictures is that there is either
> molding between the cream roof and red above the windows or there is a
> rain gutter along this length!  Also, the film emulsion often makes the
> red look almost black in B&W photos so this clouds a determination!
>
> I am looking at a photo of brand-new 1204 and it  *appears*  as though
> there IS a chernak-green line between cream roof and red above windows.
> Does Not appear to be a line between red above the windows and cream
> windows.
> The belt rail itself is cream and there IS a green stripe on the lower
> molding of the belt rail.
> On a new 1700, it is very difficult to tell if the underside of the
> gutter (inside the gutter itself is cream) between cream roof and red
> around standee windows is painted green - it appears not - appears dark
> as if just in shadow, which it is.  Definitely Not a green line obetween
> red of standee windows and cream of *sittee* windows!
> And a photo of 1170 at St.-Louis Car reveals a green line along the
> molding between roof cream and above windows red.  NO green line between
> red above windows and cream around windows.  Green line on lower belt
> rail molding.
>
> PRCo was amazingly consistent in what it did and it seems the Only
> variation in exterior colors of the PCCs is with the advent of the 1700s
> and the hour--glass front dash.
> Now, there are always exceptions.  For some reason, PCC--100--herself
> was painted a Chocolate--Brown for a time (don't know if that is light
> brown or dark brown) and car 1630 was painted what appears to be an all
> cream--color at St.-Louis-Car (pg.53 of Harold Cox' book  *PCC Cars of
> North America.*)
> Super interesting to note is the striping on 1630 when all-cream  --
> green line along top molding (which would be between cream roof and red
> above windows IF it was red!), green line on lower molding of belt rail,
> and green line at rub rail at floor level.!
> Photos of 1613 as new interurban (Jan--1946), 1481 at St.-Louis-Car,
> and 1516 at St.-Louis Car show this arrangement.
>
> AHAaaa!!!  --  the color photo by John Baxter of 1734 used as a post
> card most definitely shows a black line on the lower edge of the red
> around the standee windows over the front doors - but it is super
> difficult to tell if this went down the side of the car as well  --  and
> this appears possible in some of the photos of the air cars but it is
> extremely difficult to determine for sure!!  The roof molding overlaps
> the window area and the area of the overlap appears darker - it is in
> shadow, of course.
> The photo of the back of 1799 on a flat car at Millvale (pg.118 of
> Vol.-3  *PA Trolleys in Color*) shows the back end and there appears to
> be a green line along the molding under the standee windows which wraps
> down and around the back windows - this is the same line that would
> continue across the doors.  This green line appears on pgs.-245-247 of
> Young and Provenzos book  --  *The History of the St. Louis Car
> Company.*
>
> Another interesting note - the design of the 1700s is different from
> other standee window cars in that the molding below these windows causes
> the paint to extend across the very top of the doors - this line is
> flush with the top of the doors on most other standee window cars.  So
> this causes the top of the doors on PRCo 17s to have a band of red.  Yet
> 1700-herself in photos at Millvale upon delivery reveal the the doors
> are cream at the top - no red band!
>
> And REpainted car 1111, used on the fan-trip (1958.02.02 - 1111 - PRCo
> - "Groundhog Day Fantrip:" 21, 27, 30, 34/31, 64, 75, 76, 82, 87, 94,
> 96) appears to have a black line between the red above the windows and
> the windows.
>
> Cars in the Half--n'--Half paint scheme had a red belt rail and both
> moldings of the belt had a green (possibly black at this time) stripe.
>
> It is difficult to tell at times from the photos.
>
> Have I thoroughly confused the issue yet?!?!(:->)
>
> > Dietrich, Robert J. wrote:
>
> > . . . I became confused with the black lines.  I know the band around
the
> > bottom is black and the door seals, but what about the 1" black piping
> > between the red and cream?  I looked at the color books and it appears
that
> > there is a stripe along the top of the letter board between the red and
> > cream.
>
> > So I need expert help.
> > Did all (most) cars PCCs get the top black stripe?
> > Is there a black stripe below the windows?  On all cars or just some?
> > Is the black stripe consistent on all paint schemes?  Mine is a red
front.
>
> > Thanks.  I appreciate all the help I get from you folks.
>
> > Bob
>
> --
> James B. Holland
>
>         Pittsburgh  Railways  Company  (PRCo),   1930  --  1950
>     To e-mail privately, please click here: mailto:pghpcc at pacbell.net
> N.M.R.A.  Life member #2190; http://www.mcs.net:80/~weyand/nmra/
>