[PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh 7-Charles Street abandonment

[John Swindler]

Also looking through the index for Lancaster and Reading, and like 
Pittsburgh Railways, they too seemed to embark upon some corporate house 
cleaning during 1920s, with underlier companies buying out other underlier 
companies, and attempts made to put railway owned electric power facilities 
with PP&L, Met Ed, and Duquesne Light respectively.

As an example, the Monongahela Street Railway Company asked for permission 
to purchase the Oakmont and Wilkinsburg Street Railway Co. and North 
Braddock Street Railway Company in 1931.  And in 1926, Monongahela Street 
Railway sold transmission lines to Duquesne Light from Sandy Creek 
substation towards Verona and from Wilkinsburg substation to Edgewood.

Guess we'll also have to check out why the Duquesne Street Railway Co. filed 
for extension of route along Larimer Ave. from Broad to Frankstown Ave., and 
thence over tracks of Citizens Passenger Railway Co. -- in 1924.

This isn't going to be a simple process of just looking up Pittsburgh 
Railways!

John

p.s.  maybe we should ask the list if anyone has copies of PUC proceedings 
in their library before we start xeroxing.  (if so, can you notify Ed off 
list?)



>From: "Edward H. Lybarger" <twg at pulsenet.com>
>Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>Subject: [PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh 7-Charles Street abandonment
>Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 10:18:39 -0400
>
>
>The 1902 consolidation was structured in such a way as to almost guarantee
>financial failure, as it assumed eternal passenger growth, made no 
>allowance
>for depreciation, and enriched (for a while, at least) the holders of the
>underliers' securities.  Nearly everything was a lease.  In the 1924
>reorganization, a number of companies were disposed of, but it was not 
>until
>1950 that they all went away.
>
>Ed
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
>[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org]On Behalf Of John
>Swindler
>Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 9:58 AM
>To: stennyson at webtv.net; billvigrass at hillintl.com
>Cc: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org; ALLMANR at aehn2.einstein.edu;
>rwan at dejazzd.com; csiebert at paonline.com; elmerfry at desupernet.net;
>JacksoRE at STVINC.COM
>Subject: [PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh 7-Charles Street abandonment
>
>
>
>
>Hi Ed
>
>Yes, rt. 7 Charles St. was the PCC operated route to downtown, rt. 9 was 
>the
>double-end shuttle route over .625 miles of mostly single track, and rt. 8
>was another downtown route, on Perrysville Ave.
>
>Was somewhat surprised to see that the route numbers were not cast in
>concrete.  There is also a 1950 PUC application that mentions rt. 9 bus 
>line
>- think it was for Bellevue or Avalon.  It is described in one of the
>folders at PUC docket A-76720.  Also, John Bromley has a route listing from
>1920s(?) that gives a 7-Charles St. (to downtown), 7-Charles St. shuttle,
>8-Perrysville, and 9-Charles-Perrysville.  From Bromley's description,
>sounds like 8 was the main route to East St. or Keating, and 9 was a
>significant Perrysville Ave. short turn at Charles.  Same seems to have
>applied for 42 and 43; 64 and 66; 55, 56 and 57; 68 and 69; 10 and 11; and
>perhaps 18 and 19.  In the case of 43 and 66, the longer route was single
>track beyond Neeld Ave. and Coal St., respectively.
>
>I used the word "significant" short turn on purpose.  That's because we 
>have
>forgotten where the farm houses were located.  Much that to us looks like
>older built up urban areas was the suburban sprawl in the pre-WW I years,
>made possible by the street railway.
>
>Back to PUC docket A-76729 and a question for you and Harold.  Curious 
>about
>your recollections of the 1950 PRC reorganization because this docket is
>discribed as "application of Pittsburgh Railways Company for approval of
>incorporation through consolidation of 55 companies comprising present
>Pittsburgh Railways Company system."
>
>This was another surprise because was always under impression that a big
>consolidation occurred in 1903 to create Pittsburgh Railways Company.  But
>apparently such was not the case.  Was the 1903 consolidation primarily
>leases rather then purchases?  And thus there may be additional PUC actions
>filed under the underlying companies rather then strictly Pittsburgh
>Railways?
>
>I have this sinking feeling that I'm opening another 'can of worms'!!!
>
>John
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: stennyson at webtv.net (Shirley Tennyson)
> >To: billvigrass at hillintl.com (Vigrass, Bill)
> >CC: j_swindler at hotmail.com ('John Swindler'),
> >pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org, ALLMANR at aehn2.einstein.edu,
> >rwan at dejazzd.com, csiebert at paonline.com, elmerfry at desupernet.net,
> >JacksoRE at STVINC.COM, billvigrass at hillintl.com (Vigrass, Bill)
> >Subject: RE: Pittsburgh 7-Charles Street abandonment
> >Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 23:14:45 -0400 (EDT)
> >
> >   I think (foggy memory) that you have the route numbers wrong. Route 7
> >Charles St. was  the PCC car route after the slow speed low-floor cars
> >were retired. Route 9 was the Transfer with old double end 4200's.
> >Route 8 was busy Perrysville Avenue, a major route, with which #9
> >connected.
> >E d   T e n n y s o n
> >
>
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