[PRCo] Re: West Penn Cars at PTM

[Fred W. Schneider III]

Of course, if I need to agree with Ed on continually updated exhibits
... we've been working on these together for years and this is one thing
we agree 100% about.

By the way, Ed and the rest of you, Crich just got a lottery grant for
about 1 million pounds to expand their library.  

"Edward H. Lybarger" wrote:
> 
> The people at Crich know how to do SOME things.  And they do them very well.
> But my experience there this past summer is that the railfan/enthusiast is
> truly the one for whom most things are done.  Car restoration...superb.
> Physical plant...superb.   Atmosphere...superb.  Food service...superb
> Exhibits...not so superb for the general public, though superbly executed.
> The trade fair would put millions of people to sleep, because they don't
> really know what it's all about, and because they probably don't care.  The
> fans care about this stuff. This is the single area where I give them low
> marks.  But I did hear them discuss continually falling visitor numbers.  Is
> it possible the two are somehow related?
> 
> The availability of government funding in Britain has been a blessing to the
> Tramway Museum, and has permitted it to be where it is today.  It has also
> allowed them to be less sensitive than they might about the interests of the
> general public.  United States trolley/railroad museums have generally not
> enjoyed this kind of support.  Where they have (Altoona, for example), the
> money has been squandered, in my opinion, to produce beautiful but
> inflexible exhibits that most folks won't come back to look at a second
> time.  We need to be continually updating the exhibits so there is a reason
> to come back.
> 
> Ed
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org]On Behalf Of Greg
> King
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 6:45 PM
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: West Penn Cars at PTM
> 
> Hi Again Fred,
> 
> Yes, the guys at Crich know how to do things, they even organise overseas
> trips every year, I had them this year when I ran the chartered car for them
> here in Melbourne as their Motorman.
> 
> As I don't have that book of Richard Orr's, is there a chance you could scan
> that picture of the preserved Omaha car please, Dick told me about it years
> ago when they were first talking about it. I last heard there was a push to
> have a heritage line running in Omaha, at least they will have a car to
> start with!
> 
> Yeah, it is fun to stir the pot!
> > Perhaps it should be.  But you've lost track of the message about money.
> >
> > Can we settle for a cosmetically restored Harmony body?  No trucks.  But
> > a body that looks somewhat presentabled.  Look at Richard Orr's book on
> > Omaha.  There is a picture in it (page 183) of an Omaha body sitting on
> > the floor of the Western Heritage Museum.  Will that satisfy both the
> > railfans and the public?  They know it satisfy's the public.
> >
> > And please understand that I am separating my personal interests from
> > the needs of the museum community.  I would love to ride in a Harmony
> > car.  I just recognize that "it ain't a gonna happen."  And maybe, in
> > that respect, I'm out front of Doc Fronzcek who moved it there.  And
> > maybe he'll win and I'll loose.
> >
> > The point is still one of mental overload.  Let me explain.  There is a
> > fabulous aircraft museum outside of Cambridge, England ... mostly
> > military and some civilian craft ... a whole airport worth of stuff ...
> > so large that after three hours I just simply burnt out.  If I was an
> > aircraft type instead of someone who just looks at other museums to see
> > what they have, I might have gone longer because I might have known what
> > I was looking at.  I came home with a few memories.  One:  I'd never
> > seen a World War II US fighter flying overhead before.  Two: They had a
> > huge collection of US 8th Air Force memorabilia.  Three: The curried
> > vegetables in the snack canteen at noon were so hot it took me almost an
> > hour to get on the outside of them.  If that fails to get the point
> > across -- come and look at the Clock and Watch Museum in Columbia PA --
> > can you look at thousands of clocks and watches and come away with any
> > understanding?
> >
> > So how do we handle mental overload?  Recognize up front that you have
> > the guest at your museum for one hour.  No more.  They're not going to
> > stay any longer without being antsy.  Now what is it that you want to
> > show them in one hour?  A streetcar ride?  OK.  Now you've used up 30
> > minutes.  The candy and coke machines?  There's another fifteen
> > minutes.  Now you're down to fifteen minutes to educate them about the
> > 100 cars in the barn ... and after five minutes, I guarantee you, the
> > eyes will glaze over.  And you still have not gotten them in the gift
> > store, where you want them to spend another $5 per person.
> >
> > MAYBE, AND JUST MAYBE, THE SOLUTION IS TO FINANCIALLY SEGREGATE THE CAR
> > RESTORATION FUNCTION FROM THE MUSEUM OPERATION BUDGET... TOTALLY
> > SEPARATE.  MAY I CONTINUE WITH THAT THEME?
> >
> > The National Tramway Museum in Crich, England has just such a
> > philosophy.  The museum is operated by the Tramway Museum Society, a
> > membership organization.  But any paid employees are part of the museum
> > staff, not TMS staff.  They have a second membership body ... initials
> > are TSO ... I cannot remember what they stand for.  It doesn't matter.
> > TSO members pledge monies to restore equipment ... when the money is
> > there (other grants or TSO members' pledges), then and only then is a
> > derelict body pulled out of storage (storage is in an old railroad
> > building many miles away where the public isn't forced to see it), and
> > restored.  I was there in September when the most recent TSO project was
> > dedicated ... a DT Brill semi-convertible from Porto (or Oporto, if you
> > like that spelling), Portugal.  I very vividly recall a complaint
> > published early this year in the TMS members' news magazine from an
> > individual who protested STRONGLY that he did not wish his money going
> > to restore a car from the other side of the English Channel when there
> > were still British cars to restore. He suggested that he would drop his
> > TMS membership if that practice didn't cease.  The published answer was,
> > "TMS didn't restore it.  Grant money paid for it fully."  They simply
> > didn't tell the members that TSO money was used, and that the TSO
> > members had voted what to do with their money.  The next vote by TSO is
> > to restore a Leeds car. I guess I may have to ante up some money. At
> > least that way I'll be called again for the roll out.
> >
> > Maybe, then places like Seashore and PTM could have a second membership
> > organization to fund car restoration?  It's something to think about.
> > But, while it makes everything look presentable, it still results in a
> > huge spare ratio that then costs the museum itself money to keep in
> > operation.
> >
> > Gee its fun to aggitate.
> >
> > AProchek at aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > > <So Seashore finally put in the loop at the end of the line and put
> > > in a little park.  The nicest cars run.  The operators talk nicely and
> have
> > > good manners.  The cars are put in storage barns.  Only display barns
> are
> > > open.  The rare trucks are pulled out of the mud and weeds and put in a
> > > warehouse or storage container.  The weeds are cleaned up, lawn mowed
> and
> > > flowers planted.  Nice bathrooms, reasonable food.>
> > >
> > > Yes, all that pays the bills, which is probably the most important
> thing, but a museum is supposed to be different than a Disney theme park,
> thus the museum should be educating a visitor and hopefully over time  (s)he
> would want to look at even the rusted, derelict hulks.  I get a bigger kick
> out of looking at the harmoney car remains than the operating brilliner.
> Maybe I am in the minority, but there should be a place for us minorities.
> >