[PRCo] Re: West End

[Jim Holland]

Good Morning!

>> Jim Holland commented:

>> Good Morning!

>> http://davesrailpix.railfan.net/pitts/htm/bvp003.htm - shows the X-over on
>> the Smithfield St. Bridge which the 32-line cars used for getting into and
>> out of the barn.

> John Swindler wrote:

> Out of curiousity, Jim, how do we "know" that the crossover on the bridge
> was used by rt. 32 pull-ins/pull-outs??  (I'm not disagreeing, because it
> seems logical - just asking for documentation)  Was P&LE Transfer always a
> Tunnel Carhouse route, and if not, when and where was it assigned
> previously.

	First off, John  --  w-h-e-r-e  would we find specific documentation  -- 
esp. when it is extremely difficult to come by for more  *important* 
info?   Second.......,  ALWAYS?   *Probably*  not  --  wasn't there a
carbarn at the Point Bridge at one time?   32-line  *could*  have operated
from there.   We know that cars shifted barns frequently as did route
assignments.   32-line twas a tunnel based line for some time and near the
end - what else would the crossover be used for?   Deductive reasoning and
good postulation.   Note that the turns to and from the tunnel and to and
from W.Carson were installed for that reason post WW2.
	We had a discussion about this X-Over before.   I have no doubt, but
canNOT prove, that the 32-line  MAY  have originally used the X-Over on the
bridge to change ends.   Would seem very logical from a passenger
standpoint as there would be a direct connection to  ALL  other equipment.
	Using the X-Over on W.Carson causes a considerable walk thru an extremely
busy intersection to make any transfer.   Obviously, that was done for
SURE  --  and  IF  the former was done, it reverted to the latter because
of high trolleycar traffic and interference there.

>> At any rate, I can't seem to find that photo to see if turnouts were in
>> place for turns to and from West Carson.

>>       These 2-turns seem to have been added during or immediately after WW2
>> which is interesting because the 3750s with left side door were reportedly
>> based at South Hills for the 23-line.

> Do we have a PRC document - or even PERC document - that lists 23 as a
> Tunnel Carhouse route - or are we dealing with railfan heresay and
> conjecture??

	I have wondered the same.   Have seen it in print  --  have just glanced
thru *Electric-Railroads* July-1952 and did not see it there.   It has
definitely been mentioned here on list before  --  believe Ed has mentioned
similar about 3750s being based at Tunnel for 23-line service after
left-door cut in.   Doesn't make sense.
	As I have mentioned before, this is info that I  *white-flag.*  
Interesting, seems full of holes, don't have any corroborating info - wait
for same or such info that refutes.   ONLY  evidence so far.

> The answer is:   NO, NO WAY, forget it, Smithfield St. bridge not even a
> consideration  ....

	That we know  --  and nice to know more specific reasons.   But if this
reason had not existed, it  *would*  be very possible to run Smithfield
Bridge - trolley traffic itself would not be excessive   ---   But.......
running times would be excessive, more cars would be needed for same
passenger loads, and overhead expense would be markedly greater.   Tis all
I was trying to point out.

> We always assume that the west end lines were converted due to Point Bridge
> closure and opening of new Fort Pitt Bridge.  Looking at the big picture -
> yes.  But the real reason the lines were converted is that the Penna. Dept.
> of Highways needed land on the Gateway Center side for access  ramps to the
> new bridge.  And that means that the PRC west end loop would require
> relocation. .......But don't for a moment
> thing[k] that local officials were concerned with welfare of transit users.
> All the local officials were interested in was trying to 'stick' the cost of
> roadwork on local streets and bridge replacement to PRC.

	The bottom line is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ in most situations no matter where
we go  --  Health Care?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!((::-->>))    Nothing
revealing here!
	Concern for taxpayers - no, just limited sources of funds which happen to
come from taxpayers.   Political careers  *possibly*  first concern, and
trolleycars were not exactly liked in this time frame - those ancient
beasts!

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James B. Holland

Holland  Electric  Railway  Operation....... 
___"O"--Scale St.-Petersburg Trams Company Trolleycars and...
______"O"--Scale  Parts  mailto:pghpcc at pacbell.net

______Pennsylvania Trolley Museum http://www.pa-trolley.org/
___Pittsburgh  Railways  Company  (PRCo),   1930  --  1950
N.M.R.A.  Life member #2190; http://www.nmra.org

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