[PRCo] [Fwd: PRCo------PCCs------(&----({[pat]])----PCCs)]

Sun Mar 24 03:30:25 EST 2002

Good Morning!

> Macmarka at cs.com wrote:

> .......On his [Shawn Bennear]
> website he mentions PCC 4007 now at the Bethel park Community center. He said
> it was stripped of it's number but doesn't get into why.

	Think this was mentioned here onlist before.   This trolleycar was
involved in a fatality with a pedestrian and the family of the decedant
objected to the car number so an alternate was chosen.
	Don't know anything about the possibility of repainting it in PRCo colors.

> I heard that they
> were going to paint it in it's original PRCo colors, but there was a
> discrepancy over what it's original 1700 series number was. Can someone
> please tell me about this discrepancy? And while you're at it, can you list
> the 4000 series cars along with their original numbers? Thanks!

>                                         Mark McGuire

	Below is a message to another list about the  ({[pat]})  4000-series.

	.......BUT  --  also please note these quotes from the first para-giraffe
on pg.182 of  *PCC From Coast to Coast:::::::*

	"PCC cars 4000 through 4003 are, in common with Chicago's 6000-series
rapid transit fleet, new vehicles that utilize a small number of reliable
but costly components salvaged from older equipment.......   In
Pittsburgh's case, the rehabilitated parts came from 1949-vintage PCC cars
of the 1700-series, that have been scrapped since 1981.   The actual
numbers of the scrapped cars are unimportant because the bodies were not
reused......."

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: PRCo------PCCs------(&----({[pat]])----PCCs)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 15:04:24 -0700
From: Jim Holland <pghpcc at pacbell.net>
Reply-To: pghpcc at pacbell.net
Organization: Holland  Electric  Railway  Operation  --  St.-Petersburg
Trams Company (SPTC)  *O*--Scale  Imports  --  mailto:PGHPCC at pacbell.net

Good Morning!!

	Was it Mr. Norm Vutz on this list who mentioned Dave Hamley's articles in
PTM  *Trolley--Fare*  about the PCCs of Pgh??   Can't find the original
message.

	Anyhow, I am now checking  *some*  of those articles and will excerpt
comments from the same.   But a little background information first.

	PRCo was a private stock company traded on the exchanges.   In 1956 the
Port Authority of Allegheny County (PAAC) was formed.   Up through this
time and the late 1950s, the trolleycars in Pgh. were in very good
condition (as Roger Jenkins excellent movies of this time frame attest) but
with the 1956 PAAC formation, incentive to keep the equipment up dropped
drastically.
	With the early--1964 takeover of most public transit in Allegheny County
by PAAC (later Port Authority Transit - PAT), the life support for
trolleycars was cut off and and  ({[pat]})  was decidedly determined to get
rid of trolleycars at all costs so I consider the period from
1964--1971//1972  to be the final death--throes of PRCo trolleycars in the
Burgh.
	But with  1971//1972  came a rebirth of trolleycars in the city as four
cars made a debut after being overhauled (one or two cars) and repainted.  
I consider this the beginning of the  ({[pat]})  era of trolleycars.

	For about a decade beginning with  1971//1972  only one 1700--PCC was
dismantled, and that was 1714.  A derailment on 1978.04.10 saw 1714 end up
in Piney Fork Creek.   Car 1714 was dismantled on 1979.09.13 and the front
and rear roof ends were saved to make molds for the coming 4000s!

	Forty--Five (45) sets of all new PCC control gear was ordered from
Adtranz, formerly Westinghouse Electric Transportation Division.

	Hall Industries of Pgh. provided both the pantographs and the new B3
trucks.

	The following is a listing of the 4000s, their primary and secondary
source of parts ("The column noted as second source is there because two
sets of data from ({[pat]}) files disagree to some extent on the source of
body parts for certain 4000s.  The data shown as second source is probably
less reliable, but rather than disregard it we'll show both sources until
the matter can be resolved with some finality.")   "I" indicates
Interurban.

New	Prime	2nd	In		Built
Num.	Source	Source	Service		By::::

4000	1702-I	same	1981.09.01	pat
4001	1720-I	same	1982.09.09	pat
4002	1740	same	1983.06.01	pat
4003	1731	same	1985.09.01	pat
4004	1739	same	1988.07.11	pat
4005	1719-I	1729	1986.04.15	pat
4006	1767	1709-I	1987.05.16	pat
4007	1729	1719-I	1987.06.10	pat
4008	1709-I	1767	1989.03.13	pat
4009	1700-I	same	1989.11.03	pat
4010	1757	same	1985.04.09	Blawknox

4012	4000--renumbered to 4012 on 1985.04.16.

(4013 from 1762 had just been started when the
	program was halted in 1987.  The car
	was not completed as 4013 but retained
	the number 1762.)

	Car 4003 had air--conditioning installed but it never got past the testing
stage and the car entered service WithOut the AC.   Car 4006 did get AC but
it was not reliable.

	Reasons for stopping the 4000--series::

	1)--Future need of PCCs scaled back drastically
	2)--Costs getting out of hand.

	({[pats]})  4000--series rebuild program and SEPTAs GOH program both
projected a 10--year life span for the equipment, but the 4000s were
considerably more expensive.

	As a result of the spectacular runaway of 1727 down the 6%-grade of the
4,000--foot tunnel, as a result of 1707 running away down a similar grade
on the Library (formerly Charleroi) interurban and rear-ending 4006, and as
a result of 1744 hitting 1765 from behind  --  ALL because of failed
dynamics  --  ALL  NON--rebuilt 1700s were retired from service in late
summer of 1988.

	The 4-best remaining 1700s were chosen for an electrical//mechanical
rebuild similar to 4000s, but not body modifications:::::::

1713-I	1989.07.27  --  in original PRCo colors.
1737	1989.09.10
1745	1989.07.01
1765	1989.04.10

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James B. Holland

Holland  Electric  Railway  Operation
    "O"--Scale  St.-Petersburg Trams Company Trolleycars  &
        "O"--Scale  Parts  mailto:pghpcc at pacbell.net
        Pennsylvania Trolley Museum (PTM) http://www.pa-trolley.org/
    Pittsburgh  Railways  Company  (PRCo),   1930  --  1950
N.M.R.A.  Life member #2190; http://www.mcs.net:80/~weyand/nmra/

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