[PRCo] Dormont Wye, Charleroi Washington Usage

[Jim Holland]

Good Morning!

> Macmarka at cs.com wrote:

> I know the Charleroi interurban used the 38A trackage
> into Pittsburgh.    At Dormont Junction, there is no
> place for an inbound car to join the 42 line unless it
> changed ends on West Liberty Ave. and entered the wye
> (highly doubtful).   I guess the Charleroi interurban
> used the 38 trackage through Dormont until it
> joined the 42 at Dawn, correct? 

        Yes and No, but mostly   ---   NO!

        Quoting from pg.11 of  *Electric--Railroads, #20,
July--1952*   ---   first full paragraph (this is one paragraph
but am separating it into parts for clarity:::::::)

        ""In 1902, construction was pushed to extend the single
track [Charleroi] line north from Riverview to Finleyville and on
toward Castle Shannon.    On September 12, 1930, cars ran thru
from Allenport to Shannon where passengers transferred to
continue their ride to Pittsburgh by steam train and incline of
the Pittsburgh & Castle Shannon RR.""

        ""By October 10 [1902], tracks had been extended from
Castle Shannon to Mt.Lebanon where by 950 year lease, cars passed
onto tracks of the Pittsburgh & Birmingham Traction to continue
the trip to town via Washington Road, finally transferring
passengers at the top of the Pittsburgh Incline on
Mt.Washington.   The two electric lines were to split fares on
thru passengers and each company was to have an inspector at the
junction to count and agree on the number of fares.    Actual
operation of both lines was by the Pittsburgh Railways by the
time thru service was established, so these precautions did not
have to be taken.""

        ""On December 1, 1904, cars began using the present
42-Dormont line between Dormont and West Liberty, replacing
operation along a country wagon road with that along a fine
double track PRW.    The new route then went thru the new Mount
Washington tunnel to a downtown Pittsburgh terminal at 3rd Avenue
and Wood Street.""

        The actual connection to the 42-Dormont line when service
began is not mentioned.    And don't know when the wye was built
for the 42-line   ---   we had discussions about this some time
back as a loop was proposed for this location as well   ---  
maybe the wye was already in place when a loop was considered.

        John Swindler or Ray Lattner had shown us a plat map
which showed a direct connection of the 42-line outbound to the
38-line outbound, but no crossover.    The 42-line at the wye was
actually a passing siding that extended to Biltmore and returned
to single track.    Tom Phillips had wondered about this
connection of the 42 and 38-line but as noted above, tracks from
Castle Shannon to Mt.Lebanon were built rather rapidly.    It
would not be difficult to assume that a connection, either an
X-Over from inbound to outbound on the 38-line or a direct
connection of the 38-line to the 42-line would be made for
expediency   ---   very seriously doubt that cars were backed
into the wye and out again.

        NOTE  what is said about the 38-line:::::::
"".......a country wagon road.......""

> Also, did the Washington interurban use the same
> trackage and when did both interurbans start
> using the route of the old P&CS(Overbrook)? Thanks!

        Also from pg.11 of the same publication, 2nd column,
first full paragraph quoted in part only:::::::

        ""Electrification and the placing of extra rails outside
the narrow gauge began in October 1980 and first electric cars
were run inbound through the valley route on July 15, 1909.   
Outbound service was established on November 1 of the same
year,.......    the Charleroi as well as the Washington
interurbans for the first time covered their  *present*  route to
and from downtown Pittsburgh.""

        .......AND  from pg.5 of the same publication, next to
last and very Last paragraph continuing onto pg.6:::::::

        "".......so the first through car could not operate until
February 15, 1909.    The new route was truly a high-speed
electric line, the greater portion being fenced P/R/W requiring
grading or filling almost its entire length.    One cut thru rock
is 60' long and there are 13-bridges enroute.......""

        ""The completed Washington to Pittsburgh run traversed
Washington local lines from Beau and Main Sts., the Washington &
Canonsburg line to Canonsburg, the new trackage from Canonsburg
to Washington Junction, then the Pgh. & Charleroi St. Ry. Co.
line from Washington Jct. to Castle Shannon to Mt.Lebanon, via
Pgh. & Birmingham Traction Co. from the Cemetary Gate at
Washington Rd. near the present Shady Drive, Mt.Lebanon, to
Pittsburgh via Mt.Washington Tunnel.......    Operation by the
present route between Castle Shannon and South Hills Junction did
not commence until the fall of 1909.......""

        (Not) Attached is  *dormontwye2.jpg*  which was provided
by either John Swindler or Ray Lattner and it was Tom Phillips
who had pointed out the single track connection of the 42 with
the 38 line   ---  Tom mused that there may have been an X-Over
out of site of this map to allow inbound cars to make this
connection.    Lost the URL.

        Doesn't specifically answer your question but does
provide some interesting information.

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James B. Holland

Holland  Electric  Railway  Operation....... 
___"O"--Scale St.-Petersburg Trams Company Trolleycars and...
______"O"--Scale  Parts  mailto:pghpcc at pacbell.net

______Pennsylvania Trolley Museum http://www.pa-trolley.org/
___Pittsburgh  Railways  Company  (PRCo),   1930  --  1950
N.M.R.A.  Life member #2190; http://www.nmra.org

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