[PRCo] West Penn 800s

[Fred Schneider]

There are a lot of stories that don't make sense and perhaps no one
looked at the
obvious.  The obvious potential problem was that the  831-842 cars had
452,392 to
477,076 miles on them when service on the Allegheny Valley Division
ceased.  The
principal repair shop was Connellsville, not Tarentum.  Only the bodies
and trucks
came from Cincinnati; the marriage of those components with all the
electrical gear
took place in the company shops.  One could suspect that they probably
had not
returned there since they were built.  So they were moved to the Coke
Region and
were pressed into service with absolutely minimal expenditure ... a
anti-climber
extension was welded onto them (and onto the 700s) to prevent disaster
but it
probably never would have worked anyway.  And the cars again began
accumulating
miles ... probably even faster than when they were at Tarentum.  Why
faster ... car
requirements on the Valley Route diminished in the Depression when the
schedules
were cut in half ... they had 12 cars and needed 6.

Over on the Coke Region they probably accumulated miles at a rate as
high as 2,000
miles a week or 100,000 a year.  By 1940 the mileage was probably up to
650,000 to
700,000 per car.  Some of them ran through the war and had probably
gotten close to
one million miles.
By that point major surgery is needed ... rewiring was a must.  New
gears and
bearings in the WN Drive units.  There cars were insulated with cork on
the inside
which held moisture, and caused them to rust from the inside out.  Car
832 was
rewired.  One of the others was gutted preparatory to doing it.  I've
seen a
picture of that one with sash out and in gray primer.  It was never
finished ...
suspect someone looked at the dollars.  That was done in the late 1940s.

I'm not convinced that the voltage was an issue.  Motor insulation is
usually
designed to handle voltage spikes that are twice the operating voltage.
So 700
volts on a 550 volt car should not be an problem.  The fact that those
were 300
volt motors wired in series should not be an issue because the voltage
on each
motor probably didn't normally exceed 350 volts.  They were probably
insulated for
600.   And if you look at Westinghouse spec books, the No. 56 motor on
the 700s was
rated at 500 volts.  I'm not saying that the rating of the motors on the
700 is
proof.  Those old motors may have been grossly overweight and served as
great heat
sinks when loaded down.  But burning them up was not the issue the
railfan press
raised; the voltage was what was reported as the issue.

Three things make do sense to me::

1.  The railfan question might have not been directed at the right
people.  Or the
person being bothered might have said anything to get the railfan out of
his
office.  [That even happens today.]  West Penn had an engineering
department but we
have no proof that the stories (or rumors) started there.

2.  We know that during the war the company was handling extreme loads.
Ed
Lybarger and I met one motorman who told us he complained to the company
of
overcrowding on the 830s on the Phillips line during the war.    The
company had
some fairly decent two-man 700s in storage ever since the last night of
conductors
on the mainline between Greensburg and Connellsville.  Ed, wasn't that
1933?  They
needed ten 700s and spares.  I think 701-707 and 716-720 were two-man.
Those files
are in another room and the numbers really don't matter.  What matters
is, as a
manager in the middle of the war who is confronted with rebuilding
ailing cars, and
who knows the system isn't going to last long after the war, would he
spend the
money on the 830s or on making more higher capacity one-man 700s.  And
we know they
chose the latter.  By 1945 only 701 and 702 remained as two-man cars.
Whether or
not the decision was correct is immaterial' the decision was made.  And
we did know
what the choices were.

3.  The Valley Route was level - cars had 4 Westinghouse 1425 motors
rated at 25
horsepower.  The Coke Region was up hill and down with a "10 percent
grade being a
mere momentum rise."  I'm quoting Steve Maguire.  The 700s had 4
Westinghouse 56
motors rated at 55 horsepower.  I have no weight numbers for the cars
but I suspect
we're talking 20 versus 30 tons.  This suggests that the 800s were
simply
under-powered for Coke Region schedules.

.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now let me try to dispense with Jim's suggestion that the streets oln
the Irwin
line were not cleared of snow.  West Penn was the responsible party.
They had
sweepers assigned to McKeesport, Tarentum, Greensburg, Latrobe,
Connellsville and
Uniontown.  If that were the problem, damn it, is was there own fault.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

There is another rumor.  This one came directly from the greatest rumor
mill of
all, Robert H. Brown.  Bob told me that he was on a fantrip with an 830
in Irwin
where the car almost ran away down the hill in Irwin because "the car
was riding on
the flanges" in girder rail and had no adhesion.  This was absolute
gospel.  Only
one problem, it was on t-rail and there was no steel flangeway.  Sounds
more like
an instance where the car wouldn't stop in the space allocated by the
motorman to
make the stop, i.e. the hand didn't apply air soon enough.   [There may
have been a
training problem because normally [at that time]  only a man on South
Connellsville
and the freight crews worked air-brake cars.]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Next to ast item of B. S.:  The 830s were also regularly assigned to
Uniontown -
Fairchance.  Fairchance and Latrobe got the first 700s converted,
probably around
1941-42-43.  Phillips got the last ones.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Last item of B. S.   I'm not sure we know just how successful the 800s
were in
Aspinwall - Tarentum service.  We know they had 12 of them and 4
spares.  The
spares were 250, 251, and two others of the original Valley Route
250-262
series.    What we do know is that, overwhelming success could have been
overridden
by what choice have we?    However, the fact that they wanted to move
them to the
Coke Region and retire the 286-297 series and the 601-606 and 610-613
cars (and
they were all illustrated in the PUC docket to lease the cars from
themselves)
suggest some satisfaction.

.

Jim Holland wrote:

> Good Morning!
>
>         Pg.9 of the PRMA publication on  *West__Penn__Railways*
states the
> following, and I quote::
>
>         """The 830s had their problem in the Coke Region.    They were
equipped
> with small WH-1425 motors, which were subject to excessive failure
when
> run on the higher-than-normal voltages used in the Coke Region.
These
> motors were designed for 300-volt operation and were wired in
permanent
> series pairs, not unusual for modern motors.    Consequently, most of
> these cars fell into disuse, with only the 831 and 832 having their
> motors rewound to correct the problem."""
>         """During the war years, 830-series cars were operated on the
'back'
> line from Connellsville to Uniontown (and also on Latrobe-Hecla and
> Greensburg-Larimer.)    Since most had not been repainted, their
> presence on the run might account for the  'back'  line's being shown
as
> the  "Valley Route"  on a 1945 system track map published by a group
not
> too familiar with the system!"""
>
>         Pg.11 of the same publication indicates that Brownsville,
Footedale,
> and Latrobe had substations producing the lowest voltages on the
system
> --  690-volts  --  with Uniontown producing 730-volts and the other 4
> were 700-, 705-, 705-, and 720-volts.    This is confirmed on pg.12 of

> the original PERC publication on WP.
>
>         This article also says that the 830s were the last curved-side
cars
> built by Cincinnati so I would question the problem with the snow  --
> curved-side cars were quite successful.    Also, the 1425 motors were
> smaller and again should lessen clearance problems.    Lastly, the
830s
> seemed to be successful on the  *Original  Valley  Route*  with its
fair
> share of street running and snow clearance.    The biggest loophole is

> that streets on the Irwin branch were never cleared of snow whereas
all
> other streets with curved-side cars were!

xx