[PRCo] Re: Latrobe

[Edward H. Lybarger]

I've had a chance to go through some of the remaining resources!  First,
though, to answer a question in this message...the photo of the intersection
has no available detail about the orientation of the switch at Depot and
Ligonier...remember I'm working from a photocopy here.

According to Bob Van Atta's WP corporate history, the LSR's first run may
have been May 30, 1900 (and then again it may not have been).  The route,
however, began at the corner of Ligonier and Depot.  Originally, there was
no barn, and the cars were stored outside along W. Harrison Avenue, which is
maybe a mile south of the end of the line.  The Jefferson Street barn was
built in 1902.

Now on to the West Penn city map of Latrobe:  No car lines were on the
tracing from which this blueprint was made.  There are, however, black
pencil lines that indicate track on

Ligonier Street - only as far north as Depot.

Jefferson Street - from the carbarn opposite the alley between Walnut and
Chestnut, north to Depot.  A second line, in lighter pencil, connects Depot
and Thompson.

Depot Street - from Jefferson to Ligonier.

Main Street - from Jefferson to Alexandria.

Alexandria Street - from Main to the first street (alley?) north of PRR
(unnamed on map).  Pencil line turns right here and meets up with Thompson
Street line about 2 blocks east.  To the left from Alexandria and the
unnamed street is pencilled in what appears to be a line to a representation
of a station, almost as far west as Ligonier Street.

Thompson Street - from Jefferson to PRW alongside PRR about 4 blocks to the
east.

Obviously, you see some discrepancies here, so this particular map was
probably a planning toy.  The new entry and station for WCRy never
happened -- did they?  There is track missing from Depot between Ligonier
and Alexandria, but that could have been removed early.  The lack of track
north of Depot on Ligonier dates the map as pre-1928.  There is also no
track shown in the half-block of Alexandria from the unnamed street to
Thompson.  See?  Research asks more questions than it answers, sometimes!

A further review of the WCRy abandonment petition makes mention of tracks on
Main and Alexandria Streets, so I think we can probably say there was once a
loop on Thompson, Jefferson, Main and Alexandria.  But where did Depot
Street fit into WCRy's operation?  We need to review the ordinances -- I'll
volunteer to go with Derrick some day here.

I've also located some photocopies of pages from "Historic Latrobe: A glance
or two at earlier times," published in 1985 by the Latrobe Historical
Society.  There's a trolley in the cover photo (Ligonier at Main, 1915), and
more on pages 36-37:  A WCRy car on High Street, Bradenville, WP 202 in 1924
with snow up to the top of the windows, Ligonier Street 1905, and a last-day
shot.  Does anyone have a copy of this book that we could scan at a decent
resolution?

Somewhere I have a neatly and properly filed slide of the first Latrobe car
house property.  I'm pretty sure  Fred was with me at the time, but I have
no recollection of the date.  Perhaps his memory is better than mine (he has
slides of it too) and can tell me the date, in which case I will scan the
image and send it to Derrick for posting.  It is not December 1996.

I will be away until Wednesday night...can, in an emergency, be found at
chez Schneider in snowy Lancaster finishing the B&W prints for the museum's
new exhibit.

Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org]On Behalf Of
robert netzlof
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:52 PM
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Latrobe



--- "Edward H. Lybarger" <twg at pulsenet.com> wrote:
>
> This is the kind of discussion I like!  Since I have no personal
> knowledge
> of the Latrobe track, I've used such references as were available.
> As Fred
> will tell you, though, I suspect everything!  So it's clearly not
> an offense
> if someone finds evidence that contradicts what I've written
> down...I'm the
> first one who wants to know it.
>
> I've located a couple additional references.  The first is page 14
> of
> Latrobe: 100 Years (1954),

I have a copy of that, also somewhere in the Dreaded Basement. The
urge to search strengthens.

> which has a photo looking west on Depot
> street
> across Ligonier Street, and which I apparently field-checked on
> December 12,
> 1996.  The track on Depot crosses the track on Ligonier, but there
> is also a
> switch to the south connecting the two.

But how is that switch oriented? If I were travelling westbound on
Depot St, I would see a facing point switch turning off to my left
(south)? Or would I see a trailing point switch coming in from my
left?

> So we know the Depot track
> continued west of Ligonier and that there was a connection here.
>
> The second is a copy of the city map from West Penn's map book.
> The tracing
> is so faint than the lines didn't copy, so I marked it with yellow
> marker
> which is not very visible, either.  The lines appear to differ from
> the
> photo described above, and I want to pull the original blueprint
> tomorrow
> for better visibilty. This map shows the track to the old carbarn,
> which is
> located on the topo at or near the building outline on the west
> side of
> Jefferson just north of the west end of Walnut.

If we're looking at the same topo map, I think the big black blob is
not the old car house, but a former industrial building (Fullman Mfg.
Co.) somewhat south of the car house location.

As I recall, the West Penn buildings and sub-station were on the west
side of Jefferson. Their lot started about midway between Spring and
Chestnut and extended south to maybe half-way between Chestnut and
Walnut. The old car house was, I think, about the middle of the
frontage on Jefferson. As best I can make out, it is gone.

In the "good old days", Chestnut ended at Jefferson, Spring did cross
Jefferson and then followed the creek toward the football stadium.
There was a fairly large two-story frame building in the SW corner of
the Spring/Jefferson intersection. I'd guess the lot was 100' along
Jefferson, then West Penn property.

There has been a lot of construction in that area in the past twenty
or thirty years, some of it in aid of improving access to the park
and stadium, some of it in aid of a high-rise for the elderly. The
sub-station is gone, and I think most of the buildings at the
sub-station are also gone.
> The new carbarn was built in 1928;

...around the time of the ordinance for WC to stop running on
Thompson, Jefferson and part of Main. Perhaps WP's desire to stop
using Jefferson St to reach the old car house encouraged WC to get
off that track also?

> whether West Penn went that far north before the barn's
> construction I do not know.
>
> Obviously a copy of the charter for Latrobe Street Railway would
> help here,
> as well as one for Westmoreland County.  These may perhaps be found
> at the
> Westmoreland County Recorder of Deeds office, if one has time to go
> there

Hint noted, but as I'm 95 miles/2.25 hours away from Latrobe...

> (I'm not halfway done in Fayette, let alone started Westmoreland!).
>  And a
> review of Latrobe ordinances would probably be simple enough, too.

Nothing involving Latrobe's municipal government is ever simple. It
is not an accident that I am now 95 miles/2.25 hours away.

> LSR was
> chartered 8-7-99, and began operation in 1900 as far south as
> Kingston, so
> it would have been in place before the railroad overpasses were.

Which would suggest they did >not< go to Thompson St then loop back
on Jefferson to get to the car house. Depot was as far north as you
could go without crossing the railroad.

When did WCRy start up?


=====
Bob Netzlof a/k/a Sweet Old Bob


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