[PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh-Some Place Special

[Dietrich, Robert J.]

I still think Pittsburgh IS Someplace Special and now I'll have more excuses
for (forced) visits, my daughter will start Pitt in the fall.

Thank you all for your memories and bringing out some of mine which I'll
un-eloquently share:

Sun-Telegraph - My Sun-Tele paper route took me down over the hill above the
Panhandle bridge.  I fell in love with the AeroTrain while delivering that
paper, they would turn it around on the wye at the end of the bridge on days
when I would be late finishing my route.

Hobby Shop -- My hobby shop was Bill & Walt's on Smithfield Street or The
Blvd. Of the Allies, depending on the year.  I very seldom had enough money
to buy what I wanted but they allowed me to spend hours looking and
dreaming.

Only the kids speaking English -- This it why most immigrants moved into
neighborhoods were they found people of the same ethnic backgrounds.  The
reason the city became many ethnic neighborhoods.  I don't remember what
ethnic values were practiced on Mt. Washington, mostly German with a
sprinkling of Italian, but they did call Duquesne Heights "Dutch Hill".

Diamond Market smells - Well remembered but the smells themselves were not
the greatest (fish?) but thinking about them can almost put me in the place,
looking up at that big white meat counter.

Movies - The one I didn't get to see was my grandfather playing the piano at
the nickelodeon. 

Richard King Mellon and the Renaissance - "Witness to the Fifties" is a
photo book of the Pittsburgh Project, mane of the photos are on-line at
http://www.clpgh.org/exhibit/ .  Anyway, the book describes the powers
behind Renaissance and RKMs involvement, things like forcing the Pennsy to
stop polluting with the threat to recommend to his customers to use another
railroad.

Isaly's - don't forget the competition - Bard's.  Bard's was on Shiloh
Street but I don't recall an Isaly's on Mt. Washington.  Several drug stores
with soda fountains.

WWII - I remember waiting in line with Mom to buy meat, she had rationing
coupons in her hand. 

Inclines - I loved to ride my bike around in the huge expanse of the Castle
Shannon Incline while it took me up the side of the hill.  Bike rides off
the Mount were not as much fun on Sundays, the incline was closed and unless
the Mon Incline operator to allowed us to cram our bikes on that small car,
we has to push them up the hill.

Thanks again Harold and everyone. 

Bob
 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Harold Geissenheimer [mailto:transitmgr2 at earthlink.net] 
Sent:	Saturday, January 18, 2003 1:07 AM
To:	pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org; art ellis
Subject:	[PRCo] Pittsburgh-Some Place Special




Greetings

The group has had a lot of recent conversation about the
Pittsburgh downtown of the past.  I agree with these comments.
Mark missed not only the days of full PCC operation but also the
period after World War II when the Renaisance was underway.
They were good days for Pittsburgh and Alleghency County.

I moved to Pittsburgh in Feb 1950 and went to Chicago's CTA in
March 1976.  The Pittsburgh I moved to had about twice as many
citizens as now.  Here are some comparisons with today.

-     Downtown, there were five department stores.  Also stores
       in East Liberty and North Side.
-     Downtown, there were five major movies (Plus a Burlesque
      house on Forbes Ave) (Mark..what is this?)
-     Gateway Center was just started.  Mellon Sq was only a
      dream.  Parking garages just starting.
-     There was no Civic Arena.  Hockey was played in the Gardens
       on Craig Street.  The Civic Light Opera was outdoors at Pitt
       Stadium.
-     The Pirates and Steelers were in Oakland at Forbes Field.
-     There were two major amusement parks, Kennywood and
       West view.  There was a smaller park out in White Oak.
       School Picnics by trolley and bus covered the county.
-      The County Agricultural Fair at South Park was a major
       Labor Day event.  PRC handled large crowds very well.
-      There were major business and shopping districts thru out
        the County.  East Liberty-Penn & Highland, North Side-
        Federal & East Ohio, Oakland-Forbes Ave, South Side-
        Carson St, Squirrel Hill and Shadywide to name a few.
-      Smaller districts in Lawrenceville, Bloomfield, Hazlewood,
        East Ohio Street among others.  Also on Homewood Ave,
        Centre Ave and 5th Ave before the riots.
-      Outside the city, McKeesport and Homestead were
        major centers.  Each community (like Dormont, Bellevue,
        Avalon, McKees Rocks, etc) had such districts
-      Penn & Highland and Federal & East Ohio Street were major
        crossings of PRC trolley lines.  (the streets went thru before
        redevelopment).  Later URA became a bad word.
-       PRR trains used a major train shed where the present Amtrak
        platforms are.  PRR had a station in East Liberty which was even

        used by Greyhound.  B&O had a train shed off of Smithfield
        Street.  P&LE/B&O shared the station across the Mon River.
-       PRR trains to St Louis used the Panhandle Bridge and the
        track thru the West End, Carnegie, McDonald to Steubenville
        and the west.  B&O trains to the north went thru the hollow
        behind the Carnegie Museum to their bridge about 32d street.
-       The Greyhound Terminal was at Liberty & Grant where the
        Federal Reserve  is now.  Trailways was first across Liberty Ave

        at 10th Street and then moved to the new Union Bus Terminal
        at Smithfield & Water Street.  (A nice modern place, replaced
        by Blue Cross).  Harmony Short Line was at 10th & Penn.
        The Greyhound Terminal sold PRC Interurban tickets.
-       The Fort Pitt Hotel was a business man's hotel also at
        10th & Penn.  There was no Convention Center.
-       The Hilton Hotel at Gateway Center was not yet built.
        The Pittsburgher (now an office)  was on Forbes across from
         Kaufmans.  The Henry Hotel was where Mellon Sq is.
         The Roosevelt Hotel was at 6th & Penn (Now a senior
         residence).
-        A real Pittsburgh gem were the Isaly Dairy stores in many
         neighborhoods.  One of the recent photos showed one on
         East Ohio Street.  The main store was on the Blvd of the
         Allies in Oakland.  Many an evening out ended up with
         ice cream here.
-       Eat-n-park was yet to be established.  An early one was
        Dormont on West Liberty Ave.  I lived on Glenmore Ave
        just behind this restaurant.
-       There was a theatre organ in the South Hills theatre on
        West Liberty Ave in Dormont. (I believe that John Bagiensky
        helped restore this).  Dormont also had the Hollwood movie
        Potomac and Mt Lebanon had the Dennis Theatre on West
        Liberty.
-       The first drive-in was on Rt 22-30 West in Moon Run,
         Robison Twp. (Across from the Montour bus garage).
         There was another drive-in on Spring Garden.
-       There was no Fort Pitt Bridge or Tunnel.  All traffic went
         via the West End Circle.  No Ft Duquesne Bridge either.
         And no East Street or Beaver Ave roads.  No Parkways.
-       Street cars were every where:  The old West End Bridge to
        Carson Street, the Smithfield Street Bridge to the trolley
        tunnel and to Carson Street, the 10th Street and old 22d Street
        bridges to the South Side, the old Hazlewood Bridge to
        West Homestead, the Homestead High Level Bridge to
        Homestead, the old Rankin Bridge (which  included a
        traffic circle for trolleys), and bridges across the Alleghency
        at 6th, 7th, 9th, 16th and 52d Streets.  Quite a network.
-       I believe there were still five inclines...Monongahela and
        Duquesne still operate.  The Castle Shannon, Mt Oliver and
        17th street inclines are gone.  Origoinally I believe there
        were a total of 13 inclines including one to Troy Hill, now a
        street.  The Mon and the Duquesne were private companies.
        PRC operated the Castle Shannon and Mt Oliver Inclines.
        I am not sure about the 17th Street one.  Autos and wagons
        could be carried on the Castle Shannon one and I think on
        17th Street.  (Question to PTM-Arden, How many inclines
        and how many PRC operated?)
-       And the Breweries.  Duquesne on the South Side (with sign),
         Fort Pitt, Iron City and small German breweries on the NS.
-       And the newspapers.  Pgh Post Gazette (published at Grant
        and the Blvd in what became a City building), The Pgh
        Press (afternoon) in the present newspaper building and a
        Hearst owned paper (I dont remembe the name or where
        they were located).  Tarentum, Mckeesport and Homestead
        had daily papers.
-       And on the radio.  Rege Cordic started on WWSW, then
        went to KDKA.  KDKA had a unique early talk radio show
        called Party Line with Ed & Wendy King.  You could only
        hear the Kings, not the other person.
-       And on TV, only the Dumont Network station.
-       And at the Universities...CMU had not yet merged CIT
        and Mellon Institute.
-       Steel Mills every where.
-       A responsible government partnership between Mayor/Gov.
        Lawrence and Richard King Mellon.  Also a good county
        goverment under Commissiond McClelland.  Good Governors
        of both parties without todays hate...Lawrence, Scranton,
        Shaffer.
-       PRC met in the downtown YMCA on Wood Street and then
        across the street at the YWCA.
-      The PRC Second Ave barn is now a police station.  The
        Ingram barn is now a church.  And the Manchester and
        West View barns are now part of PAT.  The Harmony
        Short Line garage at 2900 Liberty Ave is now a commercial
        property and the Harmony (ex West Penn car barn) in
        Tarentum is a tire dealer.
-       There were National Guard Armories in East Liberty (Hunt),
         Oakland (Logan-now closed, a Uof Pgh building there now)
         and the Negro Penn Ave Armory in Oakland-now closed.
         Pitt built the Guard a new Armory on Crane Ave, Beechview
         in exchange,
-       The best trolley rides in my opinion were:
               -     Rt 56 to McKeesport
               -     South Hills routes to Overbrook, Drake, Library
                     and before that the interurbans to Charleroi and
                     Washington
               -     Fineview on the NS and West View
               -     Noblestown Road and the Carnegie route
                     in the West End.
               -     Rt 87 Ardmore to East Pittsburgh
          and I always liked the high speed street operation on
          West Carson and East Ohio Streets.

This a a good place to stop these historical memories.  Mark
will enjoy tracing some of these events and places.  They were
what Pittsburgh was all about.

Lets hear from each of you on your memories.  Pittsburgh
was "Some Place Special".   Nice people lived there and many
are still friends.

Harold Geissenheimer
1-973 292 2916