[PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh PCCs

Wed Mar 19 16:09:38 EST 2003

There were no GE to West. conversions.  If you are expecting the seller to
get that kind of detail straight you are naive.

Russ

                    "John                                                                       
                    Swindler"             To:     pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org              
                    <j_swindler at ho        cc:                                                   
                    tmail.com>            Subject:     Re: [PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh PCCs           

                    03/19/03 02:57                                                              
                    PM                                                                          

Need a PCC???

As an addition to Fred's comments and some other messages concerning
historic streetcar operation, the following appeared on page 10 of 17 Feb
2003 Passenger Transport.

SEPTA is soliciting expressions of interest from Museums, transit
aurhorities, and civic associations for the sale of the following St.
Louis/Westinghouse PCC cars listed as being in poor condition:

2092; 2098; 2105; 2111; 2117; 2150; 2159; and 2163

2704; 2712; 2713; 2716; and 2780

Total should be 13 cars.  Yes, I know some of the numbers were originally
GE
cars.  The question is whether all received Westinghouse control equipment
as part of the GOH program of the 1980s, or if error in advert.

John S.

>From: Fred Schneider <fschnei at supernet.com>
>Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>Subject: [PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh PCCs
>Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 14:17:09 -0500
>
>The Philadelphia plan to rebuilt 18 PCCs to run on a reactivated route 15
>Girard can be described as political, or social engineering, or perhaps a
>very disastrous mistake using someone else's (i.e. Federal) money.  The
far
>northeast end of the line has some potential for a bus line  ... it serves
>a rather blighted area called Kensington.  The rest of route 15 serves the
>some rather grisley areas. The kind that are best served by surrounding it
>with a hurricane fence topped with concertina wire.   I can only wait
until
>SEPTA ultimately brings in all the politicians to show them what was
>accomplished, and these men and women view a recreated trolley line
passing
>block after block of boarded up houses.  Why am I so cynical you ask?  I
>drove along it two days ago to look at the construction.
>
>I'm recalling a story from a SEPTA engineer who was at Callowhill carhouse
>about 1980 when the new Kawasaki cars were being delivered and who
>witnessed a killing right in front of his eyes ... possibly a drug deal
>gone sour.  And going back to the same time, I remember wanting to do an
>audit on the West Philadelphia state employment office, which was then at
>49th and Lancaster Avenue.  Our WIN program manager (a very fine
>African-american LADY ... people of any race don't come any better than
>her) told me that she would go there with me, but only if I drove her in
>and drove her back out.  She wasn't about to park her car there nor wait
>for a route 10 trolley in one of the worst neighborhoods in the city.  It
>was an experience for me too.  That office had three armed guards, and
they
>were unable to prevent two employees from being mugged right in the office
>in the span of one year!    Sounds to me like a very nice area for a
>tourist trolley!  If you want to get rid of your tourists.
>
>I heard on Friday that Brookdale Locomotive may be trying to welch out on
>the rebuild contract, or talk SEPTA out of more money.  They have
>apparently complained that the cars are in far worse shape than they
>imagined and that they are unable to do the job for the quoted price.
The
>other side of the coin is that they were given a junk car to strip down to
>see how bad it was before bidding ... and they knew that the roof carlines
>were all rusted away from the side posts, and that the side posts were
>rusted from the side sills, and so forth.  I was also told that their bid
>was high enough to build 18 new bodies if necessary.  So it may be that
>Brookdale either sees a cash cow or is fed up with dealing with SEPTA.   I
>refuse to disclose my sources of information, suffice to sayt that both
are
>in the rail car industry and neither have a personal axe to grind.
>
>Can the line be profitable in any way?  Or rather can in earn enough
>revenue to make a trolley more practical than a bus?  Remember, we're
>talking 18 cars.  In the old days (private industry) that would be 16 to
17
>active in the rush and 1 to 2 spares.  Today the numbers are probably more
>like 10 running and 8 idle.  The route is about eight miles long ...
>roughly a car every two miles with the others on recovery time at the
>ends.  In the rush hour, that is probably about a 10 to 12 minute
>headway.   Under private enterprise, the threshold of profitability for a
>trolley was every 5 minutes or more often.  Diesel buses were useful if
you
>ran them every 10 minutes or less often.    Clearly, if you are to
amortize
>all costs out of the farebox the line can't make a profitable return.
But,
>in an era where we use state and federal money for as much as 90 percent
of
>capital costs, it doesn't matter if we run a trolley, does it?
>
>It will be interesting to read what Harold Geissenheimer or Ed Tennyson
>posts in response.  Your turn...
>
>Fred Schneider
>
>Matt Barry wrote:
>
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I came across this year-old article by accident today.  I don't recall
> > its being discussed on the list.
> >
> > http://www.post-gazette.com/transportation/20020127gratacoltrans2p3.asp
> >
> > Matt
>
>fws
>
>
>

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