[PRCo] Re: PCC___Quiz

Sun Nov 23 19:52:00 EST 2003

Good Morning!

> Boris Cefer wrote:

> Jim, do you want to kill me?

	Absolutely Not.

	But you have heard the statement:::::::

		""Be Careful For What You Ask!!!""

>> From: "Jim Holland" <PghPCC at pacbell.net> wrote:

>> 071.>-- List the 11-PCC cars burned at
>>	 Homewood 1955.05.18.

> Remember only 1600, 1701 and 1725. And 1648.

1026    1051    1155    1220    1281    1294

1600    1648    1682    1701    1725

BONUS___QUESTION:::::::

101.>--	Which series of cars were Not Burned at Homewood
	Fire of 1955.05.18??

>> 072.>-- Which 1000-series car had a home-built
>>	 trolley cowl and why?

> I assume that it was a test of force-ventilated
> traction motors with roof air intake.    But haven't
> heard the car number.

	Excellent Response.    1019.    Appeared similar to original
but  *Pullman-esque.*    Rounded in front, higher, flatter on
top!    Was used in Charter:

1959.06.14__1019__Last PRMA West End trip:
	26, 34/31, 30, 27, 21, 39, 47, 44, 42, 38, 38A, 35.

	Do Not Know where the car was actually based    ----
		Anyone Know?

>> 073.>-- What happened to 1224--1274 and 1278 in
>>	 1959--1962??

> Don't guess.    Something with drum brakes?

	Yes, converted to drums.    Late in the game for these cars,
Yes?

>> 074.>-- For what special use was car 1021 used?

	SLCCo Order Number-1604,  ""Car 1021 was used as a fare box
car.""      Pg.363, *From__HorseCars__to__Streamliners* 
A.R.Lind.

>> 075.>-- Which car was sold to US&S Div of WABCo in
>>	 1963 and why?

> 1467, presently in Arden TM.    Don't know, for some
> tests of their improvements?

	Automation for transit vehicles  --  first BART car?!

>> 076.>-- Which car was sold to WABCo in 1968?

	Car 1470, May--1968 - reason not stated.    From Lind's book,
pg.367.

>> 077.>-- Which series of cars was altered by WW2 Board?

> 1500s.

	Good answer for vague question  --  should have been stated
better.

>> 078.>-- What else happened and to what cars as a
>>	 result of WW2 needs?

> 1500s had painted anticlimbers and interior metal parts,
> instead of chrome.
> Also absence of headlight molding was obvious.
> Black headlight trimming.
> They had not the door posts (together with 1400s).

	Absence of Door Posts probably PRCo experiment and not related
to War Board.    But 1600s also suffered from lack of chrome,
thus black headlight molding and painted stanchion bars inside,
and painted anticlimbers.

>> 079.>-- How many and what brand of fans in roof of 1630?

> 3.

	Sturtevant Fans.

	Incidentally, 1700s had 4-roof fans.

>> 080.>-- Parts of which car series had Mohair seating?

> 100, 1000, ...? Help.

	Tens and Elevens  --  donut know about 100.

>> 081.>-- What kind of wheels did PRCo PCCs use?

> Standard resilient D-1 (Lorain) and
> NACO (six bolts, no center nut).

>> 082.>-- What was added to exterior of 1600 and
>>	 1630 by PRCo?

> They had roof monitor, but not added by PRCo.
> What you mean?

	Weather guards over the air-intake screens.

>> 083.>-- After delivery of car 1700, what was specified
>>	 by PRCo to be added to the exterior?

> Auxiliary sealed beam headlight?

	Weather guards over the air intake screens.    Car 1700 was
delivered without same.

>> 084.>-- What did PRCo add to the exterior of
>>	 the 1700s about 1-year after delivery?

> Spare trolley pole?

	The spare trolley pole was installed on the Interurban Cars Only
and prior to entry into service.

	Apparently another weather guard over the gap in the curved
front end of the roof monitor and the roof which looks like
broad  *Duct__Tape!!*    Delivery and Very Early Photos of cars
in service will reveal a lack of this tape.

>> 085.>-- Which car is  *known*  to carry flags
>>	 advertizing *566__Streamliners?*

	Car 1642 for sure.    Queen Mary also had flags and may have
been same flags.    Any of the 16s could have carried these
flags.

>> 086.>-- Which 3-PRCo cars might be considered  *Pre--PCC?*

> 6000, 6001, 6002.

>> 087.>-- Where was the side destination sign:

>>	 a.>-- on Air-Cars?

> Fifth window.

>>	 b.>-- on All-Electrics?

> First standee window.

>> 088.>-- What was special about the insulation on
>>	 PCC motors and why?

> Class B insulation, but it's supposedly not what
> you ask for.    As for PCC traction motors, still
> have inadequate knowledge.    Can't find any photos,
> drawings and detailed specifications.

	And You are Clairvoyant as well.

	Motors were rated for double the working voltage because of
dynamic braking voltage spikes.

	Traction Motors discussed on pg.151 of  *Fought__Back*  with
photo on pg.152.    Various other comments throughout book.   
Photos and drawings of trucks pgs.118--141 reveal some details as
well.

>> 089.>-- Who was the First Chief Engineer of the ERPCC?

> Clarence F. Hirshfeld.

	Phenomenal Individual!!

>> 090.>-- What was special about the requirements for
>>	 the position of Chief Engineer?

	From pg.31 of  *...Fought__Back*  first lines, 2nd-column:  
""'a knowledge of carbuilding or of the operation of railway
properties was not a prerequisite to the position and in many
ways might constitute a handicap,'""

>> 091.>-- On What date was the Chief Engineer hired.

	1930.09.01

>> 092.>-- By what date did this Engineer have a
>>	 detailed research program prepared?

	October--1930!!   ---   After Purchasing And Reading a complete
Set of  *Electric__Railway__Journal*  AND  other industry pubs,
even German language pubs!

>> 093.>-- On what date did the ERPCC order a car
>>	 from Pullman?

	1934.02.05

>> 094.>-- What type of braking did this Pullman car
>>	 use and what was unique about this braking?

> Eddy current braking - excited from trolley line.

	Trolley-Pole allegedly left the over which wiped out
eddy-current braking which resulted in collision and demolishment
of vehicle.

> And also hydraulic parking brakes and track
> brakes lowered to the rail by means of air pressure.

>> 095.>-- What defines a PCC car?

> Royalties. But it's not I fully agree with.

> 096.>-- PRCo only had 665 PCCs because royalties were Not
> Collected on One Car; Which Car Was This?

> 1600.

	Sientese, por favor, todo el mundo por este:::::::

FROM pg.52 of the aforementioned Book, Very First Paragraph, Last
half of same, I quote:::::::

"".......The corporation's patent policy was less than strict,
and the TRC tended to concentrate on its wheel and truck patents
to the exclusion of numerous body designs.    [Following Emphasis
Added:]     MINUTES  AND  FINANCIAL  RECORDS  SHOW  THAT  IT 
FAILED  TO  COLLECTS  ROYALTIES  ON  PITTSBURGH  CAR  100, 
ALTHOUGH  IT  WAS  ALL  BUT  IDENTICAL  TO  THE  PREVIOUS  ORDER 
FOR  BROOKLYN.      Licensing of five cars for San Francisco in
1939 and 14 cars for Philadelphia Suburban a decade later was
also ignored.    As bad as this may sound, the corporation also
managed to collect royalties  *on__at__least*  [emphasis added] 
180 cars that were never built.""

	PRCo___PCC--100  is  NOT  a PCC    ----
		According to Above Definition!

	Would New Yorkers love that or what?!?!

	Each and Everyone of Us wants to be First, and Pgh. wants to be
First with the PCC In The World    ----    As Does NY.    This
has stirred endless debateS and is still so doing on other
lists!!

~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~

	Boris disagrees with this definition and so do I  --  and this
Before I Remembered the above about PRCo--100.    We had a
discussion on the SF list about those 5-cars mentioned above and
reportedly The City of SF had the royalty amount included in the
purchase price because city charter disallowed paying
royalties.    So the 5-Magic Carpet Cars in San Francisco Are
PCCs according to Official Definition.

	I went on to add that had Any City using PCCs but had never paid
royalties on the same, those cars which would be PCCs if
royalties Had Been Paid  --  so what is the difference?    I
would not be a Pick--Nicker in this situation.

	I personally would consider the Atlantic City Brill Liners to be
PCCs even though royalties were not paid, but would still prefer
to remember them, and the SF cars, as Brill products because They
Are Brill Products And to keep the name of Brill Out There!

>> 097.>-- Which individual made strong contributions
>>	 to pre-war Air-Car body design and patent and
>>	 where did he come from?

> Dan H. Bell, a PRCo employee.

>> 098.>-- Who is credited with 2/3 of the PCC patents?

> ALMOST 2/3!    Chiefly wheel and truck inventions.
> Emil H. Piron, born in Belgium.

>> 099.>-- Which PRCo PCC Air-Car was experimentally
>> converted to All-Electric?

> 1413.

> 100.>-- Which PRCo PCC Air-Car was first outfitted
>>	 with extended range dynamic brakes?

> Also some 1400. 1443?

	Correct.

EXPERIMENTAL___B3s

	Your comments indicated that there was a separate  *set*  of
experimentals that were used for 1613 and 1614, not those under
1230 (1225) and 1278.    This seems to be born out by comments on
pg.131 of  *Fought__Back*  bottom of 1st-column into 2nd-column
And Also Comments in photo captions on pgs.132.-133.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Waiting for a bus is as thrilling as fishing,
    with the similar tantalisation that something,
        sometime, somehow, will turn up. 
            George Courtauld

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

James B. Holland

• Holland  Electric  Railway  Operation....... 
  "O"--Scale St.-Petersburg Trams Company (SPTC)
	Trolleycars and "O"--Scale  Parts
		including Q-Car
	mailto:pghpcc at pacbell.net

• Pennsylvania Trolley Museum
	http://www.pa-trolley.org/
• Pittsburgh  Railways  Company  (PRCo),
	1930  --  1950
• N.M.R.A.  Life member #2190;
	http://www.nmra.org

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