[PRCo] Re: PCC___Quiz

[Jim Holland]

Good Morning!


>> On Sun, 23 Nov 2003, Jim Holland wrote:

>> 095.>--       What defines a PCC car?

	Please note that the context of the  *Quiz*  was for quick
simple answers and that the question above requested a
definition, not a discussion.    DEFINITELY  recognize that the
discussion has seriously adulterated the definition over the
ages.

	Leaving the following intact for reference but agree that the
discussion need not progress further.


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [PRCo] Re: PCC___Quiz
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 20:30:55 -0500
From: Fred Schneider <fschnei at supernet.com>
Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
References: <000d01c3afa9$d87843c0$bd71b13e at boris6>
<3FBE9ADC.F9F2D95E at pacbell.net><002301c3b12c$424fa8a0$ba5fb13e at boris6>
<3FC094DF.23755EAE at pacbell.net><001001c3b1c6$fc9e9c80$9e71b13e at boris6>
<3FC0D71D.76424B3F at pacbell.net>
<Pine.GSO.4.58-035.0311231147050.19148 at johnstown.andrew.cmu.edu>

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003, Jim Holland wrote:

> 095.>--       What defines a PCC car?

I wish I could remember all the misstatements that have appeared
in railfan magazines .   One friend even misquoted me to my face
(before he knew who he was talking to) ...  "Mr. Schneider, who
did the book on PCCs said this .........."   I responded, "No, I
don't think he said that."   the disagreement persisted.  I
changed the wording to, "No, I never wrote that in the book."   A
PCC is often whatever a railfan wants to believe.

For those who want the poop from the car's designers, "A PCC is
any car that either incorporated PCC patents or on the sale of
which the Transit Research Corporation collected a royalty."   
This statement came from David Gaul, who was the last living
employee of TRC.  We can't go back and ask him again ... Dave
died in the late 1990s.  No cash royalties were paid on the
Brooklyn cars because B&QT pointed out that they had put up with
ERPCC people on their property using their facilities for five
years and enough was enough.  So we work on either the logic that
the Brooklyn cars contained patents held by TRC or perhaps we
could use the logic of in-kind royalties (rent, light, heat, and
so forth).   I don't remember if we put a list of PCC patents in
the books.

Steve Carlson chapter title, "Trucks and Body Make a PCC"
probably would have been better if the words "and Body" had been
deleted.  The rights to ERPCC's (or TRC's after 1935) truck
designs, particularly the wheels, were jealously protected.  But,
even though the original, single-end, St. Louis body style was
protected by a design patent under the name Dan Bell of
Pittsburgh Railways, and assigned by Bell to TRC, the corporation
never made an issue of the body.  I've never seen design patents
for a Pullman body, a double-end car, or a standee-window car. 
However, mock-ups of wood were made.

One of the most common railfan misstatements is "this is a PCC
because it has PCC foot control."   Sorry but there never was a
patent for foot control ... I doubt that it could have been
patented unless some automobile manufacturer forgot to do it
first.  I imagine that, by the time the PCCs came down the
assembly lines, auto foot pedal patents were so old as to be in
the public domain.   And the electrical hardware was protected by
patents owned by the electrical suppliers, and not by TRC.   All
we have there is a performance specification from ERPCC saying
that a car must conform to these acceleration and braking rates
and jerk limits.  GE and Westinghouse were free to build whatever
they wanted as long as it did the job.

Why did I include the Brilliners in the PCC book?  Well, if TRC
successfully litigated the issue of resilient wheels, that would
have proven that the Brilliners incorporated ERPCC (TRC)
patents.   There was a wonderful story too about the TRC attorney
getting the Brill attorney drunk the night before the trial ...
you decided if it is true or not.... hearsay evidence and all the
participants must be dead by now.

Do we need to carry this any farther?


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Waiting for a bus is as thrilling as fishing,
    with the similar tantalisation that something,
        sometime, somehow, will turn up. 
            George Courtauld

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James B. Holland

• Holland  Electric  Railway  Operation....... 
  "O"--Scale St.-Petersburg Trams Company (SPTC)
	Trolleycars and "O"--Scale  Parts
		including Q-Car
	mailto:pghpcc at pacbell.net

• Pennsylvania Trolley Museum
	http://www.pa-trolley.org/
• Pittsburgh  Railways  Company  (PRCo),
	1930  --  1950
• N.M.R.A.  Life member #2190;
	http://www.nmra.org

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