[PRCo] Re: Liberty Avenue
James B. Holland
PRCoPCC at P-R-Co.com
Wed Jul 21 17:02:20 EDT 2004
John Swindler wrote:
>I remember single track on 32nd St. being used by outbound 88 Frankstown, 94
>Sharpsburg and 77/54 cars to Bloomfield/Carrick, and inbound 87 Ardmore
>cars. Don't recall 87 continuing inbound on Liberty beyond 32nd St. No
>recollection of use of tracks on 22/23 St.
>
True -- don't remember 87-Ardmore inbound on Liberty past 32nd --
track connection does exist but it becomes single track. Do the
archives say anything about possible usage in *wrong* direction?
>Penn Ave. was somewhat slow operation through produce area. But outbound
>Liberty from 12th to 32nd St. was a raceway. Cars had to really slow down
>when jogging from right lane to center lane, vicinity of double track on
>Liberty around 22nd. Wasn't there also a safety stop for a railroad
>crossing??? (can't remember)
>
>In earlier years, (way before my time - this is from PUC decisions) Penn
>Ave. was double track, used by routes: 94, 95, 96 (was extended to
>downtown), 88, Bloomfield loop and Fifth-Shady-Penn loop. There may have
>also been a Larimar car. An early 1920s rationalization simplified this
>scheduling mess.
>
>Liberty Ave. was double track from Grant to 32nd St. for use by 86 East
>Liberty Express.
>
>Brings back memories (1st paragraphs - not latter paragraphs <g>) of
>Sunday/Holiday pass riding from early 1960s. Thanks, guys.
>
>John
>
>
>
>
>>From: "James B. Holland" <PRCoPCC at P-R-Co.com>
>>Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>To: - 1714 PRCo__WP__JTC - <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>>Subject: [PRCo] Re: Liberty Avenue
>>Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 03:35:49 -0700
>>
>>matt wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hi Bob!
>>>
>>>Liberty Avenue is still a two-way street. I believe at one time there
>>>
>>>
>>were
>>
>>
>>>two tracks on both Penn and Liberty which carried two-way trolley
>>>
>>>
>>traffic,
>>
>>
>>>long, long ago. Then, Penn was made one way from 32nd street into town.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Liberty was one way outbound in 1950s between 11th and (32nd?); Penn was
>>one way inbound during same period and was one-way through downtown as
>>well.
>>
>>
>>
>>>I think that second outbound track was sometimes used for opposite
>>>
>>>
>>direction
>>
>>
>>>trolley traffic if there was disruption of service on Penn, or perhaps it
>>>was never used for this, but it was there just in case. I say this,
>>>because there was a direct connection of inbound 87 Ardmore track at 32nd
>>>street that led into the outbound Liberty track. I'm fairly certain
>>>
>>>
>>that
>>
>>
>>>some of you can clarify this better.
>>>
>>>Matt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>The PTM map clarifies some of this. The Inset of
>>*Downtown__1917* shows double track on both Penn and Liberty -- and
>>this includes Penn in downtown itself -- while the Inset for
>>*Downtown__1959* reveals only single track on each street. Donut
>>know when Liberty became one way -- have video which shows 1100s when
>>new and it *appears* as though Liberty is one-way so this is latter
>>1930s.
>>
>>A further study of the map reveals that once converted to one way,
>>double track existed on Liberty between approx. 20th and 24th and as
>>Matt indicates, the inbound 87-Ardmore line continues straight past 32nd
>>for a short distance and then joins the outbound line on Liberty to give
>>the appearance of bi-directional operation on single track on a one way
>>street!!!!!!! This double track near 22nd is possibly left over
>>
>>
>>from when Liberty was double -- But the rails, points, and mates
>
>
>>matched that in regular use in the 1950s so it would seem that this
>>section was rebuilt for a purpose when Liberty was converted to one way.
>>
>>Don't know of Liberty being used for reverse running once converted to
>>one way but this is certainly a possibility -- at least as far as 23rd
>>where a trolleycar could turn toward Penn -- a car could not continue
>>wrong way on Liberty to town because it could never get back on the
>>correct track!!!!!!! An inbound car on Penn and an outbound car on
>>Liberty could turn at 22nd and 23rd respectively and head back in the
>>other direction. But it would have to be a Real Emergency to run
>>against traffic this way! Wonder if this special configuration
>>-- at 32nd and between 20th and 24th on Liberty -- had anything to do
>>with the 1936 flood experience. First blush would say no as if
>>Penn is under water, Liberty is probably swimming as well.
>>
>>
>>Jim__Holland
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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