[PRCo] Re: Liberty Avenue

[James B. Holland]

John Swindler wrote:

>I remember single track on 32nd St. being used by outbound 88 Frankstown, 94 
>Sharpsburg and 77/54 cars to Bloomfield/Carrick, and inbound 87 Ardmore 
>cars.  Don't recall 87 continuing inbound on Liberty beyond 32nd St.  No 
>recollection of use of tracks on 22/23 St.
>

True  --  don't remember 87-Ardmore inbound on Liberty past 32nd  --  
track connection does exist but it becomes single track.       Do the 
archives say anything about possible usage in  *wrong*  direction?

>Penn Ave. was somewhat slow operation through produce area.  But outbound 
>Liberty from 12th to 32nd St. was a raceway.  Cars had to really slow down 
>when jogging from right lane to center lane, vicinity of double track on 
>Liberty around 22nd.  Wasn't there also a safety stop for a railroad 
>crossing???  (can't remember)
>
>In earlier years, (way before my time - this is from PUC decisions) Penn 
>Ave. was double track, used by routes: 94, 95, 96 (was extended to 
>downtown), 88, Bloomfield loop and Fifth-Shady-Penn loop.  There may have 
>also been a Larimar car.  An early 1920s rationalization simplified this 
>scheduling mess.
>
>Liberty Ave. was double track from Grant to 32nd St. for use by 86 East 
>Liberty Express.
>
>Brings back memories (1st paragraphs - not latter paragraphs <g>) of 
>Sunday/Holiday pass riding from early 1960s.  Thanks, guys.
>
>John
>
>
>  
>
>>From: "James B. Holland" <PRCoPCC at P-R-Co.com>
>>Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>To: - 1714 PRCo__WP__JTC - <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>>Subject: [PRCo] Re: Liberty Avenue
>>Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 03:35:49 -0700
>>
>>matt wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Hi Bob!
>>>
>>>Liberty Avenue is still a two-way street.  I believe at one time there 
>>>      
>>>
>>were
>>    
>>
>>>two tracks on both Penn and Liberty which carried two-way trolley 
>>>      
>>>
>>traffic,
>>    
>>
>>>long, long ago.  Then, Penn was made one way from 32nd street into town.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Liberty was one way outbound in 1950s between 11th and (32nd?); Penn was
>>one way inbound during same period and was one-way through downtown as 
>>well.
>>
>>    
>>
>>>I think that second outbound track was sometimes used for opposite 
>>>      
>>>
>>direction
>>    
>>
>>>trolley traffic if there was disruption of service on Penn, or perhaps it
>>>was never used for this, but it was there just in case.    I say this,
>>>because there was a direct connection of inbound 87 Ardmore track at 32nd
>>>street that led into the outbound Liberty track.   I'm fairly certain 
>>>      
>>>
>>that
>>    
>>
>>>some of you can clarify this better.
>>>
>>>Matt
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>The PTM map clarifies some of this.       The Inset of
>>*Downtown__1917*  shows double track on both Penn and Liberty  --  and
>>this includes Penn in downtown itself  --  while the Inset for
>>*Downtown__1959*  reveals only single track on each street.       Donut
>>know when Liberty became one way  --  have video which shows 1100s when
>>new and it  *appears*  as though Liberty is one-way so this is latter 
>>1930s.
>>
>>A further study of the map reveals that once converted to one way,
>>double track existed on Liberty between approx. 20th and 24th and as
>>Matt indicates, the inbound 87-Ardmore line continues straight past 32nd
>>for a short distance and then joins the outbound line on Liberty to give
>>the appearance of bi-directional operation on single track on a one way
>>street!!!!!!!       This double track near 22nd is possibly left over
>>    
>>
>>from when Liberty was double  --  But the rails, points, and mates
>  
>
>>matched that in regular use in the 1950s so it would seem that this
>>section was rebuilt for a purpose when Liberty was converted to one way.
>>
>>Don't know of Liberty being used for reverse running once converted to
>>one way but this is certainly a possibility  --  at least as far as 23rd
>>where a trolleycar could turn toward Penn  --  a car could not continue
>>wrong way on Liberty to town because it could never get back on the
>>correct track!!!!!!!      An inbound car on Penn and an outbound car on
>>Liberty could turn at 22nd and 23rd respectively and head back in the
>>other direction.       But it would have to be a Real Emergency to run
>>against traffic this way!       Wonder if this special configuration
>>--  at 32nd and between 20th and 24th on Liberty  --  had anything to do
>>with the 1936 flood experience.       First blush would say no as if
>>Penn is under water, Liberty is probably swimming as well.
>>
>>
>>Jim__Holland
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
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