[PRCo] Re: PCC Rehabilitation

[James B. Holland]

HI!


             A lot of what you mention is Far More Subjective than it is 
Objective And Very Vaguely Subjective.     You agree that safety, 
electrical, mechanical, track and overhead were not sacrificed  --  
certainly Not Perfect, but still very reasonable.     That leaves Only 
Cosmetic Work.     I  Also  was on the 42, 38, Library, Shannon Very 
Very Frequently myself  --  made excuses to go downtown so I could ride  
--  and admit cars could be cleaner but still  No Gaping  Holes  ala  
({[pat]}).     Dings and dents and faded paint but also  Not  A  Few 
cars with fresh paint  --  witness the Half--N'--Half  paint scheme of 
the very late 1950s, early 1960s that made it on  Not  A  Few  Cars.

             Never Ever hinted that PRCo was up  (down??)  there with 
Rolls Royce and your inference of such indicates that you didn't 
completely read my post or are ignoring what I wrote    ----    I 
detailed the second and recent bankruptcy, the undies who were bleeding 
off money, the vote to make a public transit authority in 1954, etc. and 
asked  If  EVEN  Us  TrolleyCar  Fans  would pour money into such a 
company, knowing it was doomed.     But  In  Spite  of all this, PRCo 
still did the aforementioned paint scheme, renewed track Very Late In 
Its History, and kept the cars in quite reasonable condition.

             You want to see junky  Totally  Neglected  PCCs  then look 
to San Francisco in the late 1960s to 1982 when PCC service ended.      
*The__People's__Railway*  pg.204 and I quote:::::::       """Not until 
1980 was there even the beginning of an effort by Muni management to 
institute a rational, comprehensive preventive maintenance 
program."""      ALL  that Muni ever did  *In__Its__Entire__History*  
was apply Band-Aids when equipment malfunctioned  --  NOthing  
More!      But until late 1960s the equipment didn't look  *too bad*  
--  but probably Very Little Paint until the 1970s when a variety of 
schemes were tried.      It was Widely  KNOWN  and observed by operators 
that equipment turned in for bad brakes would have the passenger bell 
cords tested by shop crews, transfer stand was repositioned, and doors 
were cycled then the Red Not In Service sign was rolled to a service 
sign and the equipment was sent Right Back Out Without Ever Shifting the 
car to another track.

             Personally Had this problem with 1113 where I had a Total 
Dynamic Failure Multiples of times  --  took it in and someone else took 
it right out.     Tracked the car for months and got signed statements 
from other operators that the car constantly lost brakes, Had 
testimonies From Passengers seeing operators Literally Stand Up While 
Applying brakes on 1113 and Still Muni Sent It Out!!!!!!!       
CRIMINAL____NEGLECT    ----    absolutely No Other Explanation.      
Once taken out of service it sat for many months before anything was 
done to it.

             The first Monday of the First Full Week after New Year in 
about 1979--1982, I had an early morning pull out on the J-Church  --  
supposed to be 15-cars on the line  --  Only 9-cars signed out.     Car 
broken down at 30th when I arrived.     Had a jam packed car, passed up 
many intending passengers and at 24th Inbound, the car completely died 
without warning and would not restart.     That one out of service in 
addition to my follower who had to push me leaving 6-cars on the line 
for the AM Rush.      This Was  THE  RULE  on Muni in the latter 1970s 
to the end of PCCs    ----    went thru this on a daily basis.

             And Filthy Inside    ----    That Definitely Continues To 
This Day on Muni on most all equipment  --  suspect the PCCs and 
hysterical cars might be in better shape however.

             Relative to SF-Muni,  PRCo Was Definitely A Rolls Royce    
----    Thank You for bringing it up!!!!!!!


JIM



Harold Geissenheimer wrote:

>Greetings
>I competed with Pgh Railways from 1950 to 1964.
>
>Our buses ran on the same streets as the cars.
>
>With few exceptions, from an accident, etc, the PCC.'s were
>not maintained very well.
>
>I viewed photos at the time of the takeover which confirmed
>this and later what PAT found when they started rehab.
>
>True John Dameron wanted the end of the PCC's
>But it was before Dameron that PRC stopped some maintenace.
>
>Agreed that safety and electrical was never a question.  And there was
>track work.
>
>Lets face it...after Tom Fitzgerald, PRC cars were not properly maintained..
>
>I used the 38 and 42 on a regular basis and the cars were not clean or
>attractive.
>
>All of our best wishes cant make PRC into a Rolls Royce.
>
>Most bus lines had good maintance.     Community, Bigi, Oriole, Shafer,
>Ohio River, Harmony, Penn Transit, Noble Dick, were excellent.
>The poor looking ran mill buses in the Mon Valley.
>
>Harold Geissenheimer
>
>James B. Holland wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Harold Geissenheimer wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Boris
>>>There were several stages of the PCC decline.
>>>
>>>First Pgh Rys painted few cars and made cheap repairs
>>>if any.
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>            Difficult to be specific since email is the Fast-Food of 
>>communications, and while some aspects of the above are true, I would 
>>still submit that the basic fleet received pretty decent care.     Think 
>>we can chronicle that cars nearing the end of life expectancy received 
>>little to no cosmetic attention but to keep them operating up and down 
>>the hills, they needed electro-mechanical attention.
>>
>>            The bulk of the PCCs were purchased during receivership  
>>--  known that the Trustees during this period paid good attention to 
>>infrastructure and did not a little track renewal.     Overhead Not in 
>>the Los Angeles Perfect category, but Definitely Much Better than most 
>>systems I have seen.
>>
>>            Not long after receivership / bankruptcy ended in the early 
>>1950s, talk of a public agency became common.      On 1954.12.05  (A 
>>Cold Day in Pgh, if Not That Other Place!):::::::       ""The county 
>>commissioners made public proposed legislation, drafted by a 
>>seven-member citizens' committee, for creation of a county-wide public 
>>transportation authority to acquire and consolidate bus and trolley 
>>lines.     The legislation required approval of voters in a referendum 
>>scheduled for primary election of 1956."""---[Pgh.,pg.502 - Stefan 
>>Lorant.]       So the wheels of  @#$%&*^  were in progress and it took 
>>another 10-years before such became reality.
>>
>>            But even as of 1960, equipment was still in decent looking 
>>condition, overhead was good, track on prw was rough but even some 
>>street trackage was replaced in the very early 1960s by PRCo.     It was 
>>still possible to open the cars up on prw and let them roll!
>>
>>            The 1200s were nearing end of life as  ({[pat]})  took over 
>>and may have looked shabby but Do Not Remember Holes to put my hands 
>>thru on any of the bodies.     None of these cars were acquired by  
>>({[pat]})  OR  were retired shortly thereafter if they were.     So How 
>>Much Money would Any One Of Us have spent on a system about to be 
>>condemned if we sat in the President's seat???????
>>
>>            THE  Real  DownHill  Slide  came after  ({[pat]})  took 
>>over because, in spite of  *Stated__Intentions* to keep trolleycars 
>>rolling, the authority was  Hades--Bent  on getting rid of trolleycars 
>>and modernizing the city Known For Operating the largest rolling Trolley 
>>Car Museum in the country  --  Didn't Not Dameron say this himself  --  
>>We  Have  Had  this discussion right here before!!!!!!!
>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Second after 1964 under PAAC some cars painted grey
>>>with very little else.  PAAC was going to abandon every thing.
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>            So the Leaders of  PAAC  were  *Liars*    ----    
>>*Please__Note*  that it is the Individual (Authority in this case) 
>>himself that calls himself a Liar when actions do not coincide with 
>>statements    ----    others just observe the label the individual / 
>>authority gives himself.
>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Third.   Start of the Early Action program.  First 1700's, then 1600's
>>>New mod paint styles after 1970.  Bi Centenial car 1776 was first
>>>1600..
>>>
>>>Fourth.   Continuation by PAT after Ken and I left.
>>>Included the stupid steamboat car
>>>
>>>Five.  4000's, some new, some rebuilt.
>>>
>>>All of the work done under the Early Actionprogram was first
>>>class.  Included two 1600's with LRV fronts..  Much credit to Ken Hssong
>>>and Phil Castelano.
>>>
>>>Harold Geissenheimer
>>>