[PRCo] Re: PRCo__Interurbans

[Boris Cefer]

Jim, find the answer yourself! :-)

T1s had only one heater for motorman - 600 watts only. And that was all,
except the heating by the hot air from accelerator.
T2s had two 600 watt heaters - one for montorman and one for conductor plus
the air from the accelerator. No auxiliary heaters. They simply expected the
hot air would be sufficient to heat the car, but it wasn't, especially on
routes with long distances between stops.
T3s have 4.8 kW heater for motorman (later 6 kW) and 4.8 kW auxiliary
heaters for passengers. Because the heating by the air from the accelerator
was found insufficient, T3s did not use the accelerator to heat the
interior. But in late 70s the decision was changed and the newer T3s use
both the auxiliary heaters and the air from the accelerator. Also
possibility to recirculate the air inside the car was introduced.
Because of various reasons to save energy, many old T3s lost their auxiliary
heaters completely and several years later got them back. Strange? Yes! But
that was in the era of communism/socialism where our heavy industry and its
high energy consumption played considerably higher role than heating in
streetcars. The transit companies had to move people to industrial plants
and it wasn't whole important if the cars were hot old cold. Now our transit
companies tend to do their best for customers and our cars are not too cold.
According to standards, the interior temperature has to be always above 32 F
and there is a digram showing required relation between temperatures outside
and inside.

Boris

----- Original Message -----
From: "James B. Holland" <PRCoPCC at P-R-Co.com>
To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 9:33 PM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: PRCo__Interurbans


> Boris Cefer wrote:
>
> > By the way, the motorman's heater in 17s had only 1 kW heating output!!!
> >
> > Boris
>
>
> And PRCo motorman's position Not Enclosed!!       But would like to know
> more about the basis for this decision before faulting PRCo.       *A*
> possible thought is that they don't want to  *sedate*  the motorman with
> heat which may cause an accident but just remove the chill in the area.
>
> Another thought in this area  --  the 17s were designed immediately
> post-WW2 where the disciplines of rationing and sacrifice were still
> quite strong.
>
> Not At All Surprized that PRCo had different heat settings for city and
> interurban cars  --  but Very Pleased to hear that they did.       Shows
> some very real thought on the part of the company, dispels this greedy
> attitude which is so often attributed to the companies, and also reveals
> attention to detail that we have already seen in the arena of
> safety.       This attention to detail seems to be spread quite wide in
> the company!
>
> Excellent  Explanation  Below  --  really covers the various aspects of
> comfort which can be very relative.       Amazing how many people never
> put 2 + 2 together to get 21!!       People outside in winter come into
> thermostat controlled room, take off their coats, and complain about
> being too warm.       Within the hour of sitting to read the paper they
> are cold  --  same thermo room.       Slowing of circulation and the
> body furnace is Never Taken Into Account  --  has to be the room or
> something else!
>
> Are ALL Euros so practical  --  or are You the Exception to the Rule?!?!
>
>
> Jim__Holland
>
>
>
>
> Boris Cefer wrote:
>
> > Each of us is an original sample in question of comfort. But,......
>
> > An example. The Tatra T3 cars (exactly T3 SU) with totally enclosed
> > motorman cab delivered to many Russian countries have 6 kW cab's
> > heater with blower to provide adequate efficiency. At temperatures
> > around 15 F the motorman does not need to sport any heavy coat, even
> > he is sitting for about 9 hours and has only very low exercise behind
> > the controls. Now, compare the area of the cab with the rest of the
> > car's interior. And remember the people usually are well dressed under
> > such conditions.
>
> > Most T3s in our city have 6.6 kW interior heaters only, which provides
> > capacity enough to defrost the car under similar conditions and the
> > interior is quite acceptable.
>
> > Another aspect is that the difference between the exterior and the
> > interior temperatures should not be too big from health reasons.
> >
> > B
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Fred Schneider" <fschnei at supernet.com>
> > To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 4:33 PM
> > Subject: [PRCo] Re: PRCo__Interurbans
> >
> >
> >> Interesting. 20 kw versus 10 kw. But my background is insufficient to
> >> tell me what this means in terms of comfort. But it does say that
> >> someone thought about the problem up front ... PRC's engineering
> >> staff was not totally oblivious to the different demands of city and
> >> interurban service.
> >
>
>
>