[PRCo] Re: "sawmills" - correction

Thu Sep 30 16:58:01 EDT 2004

correction:

make that Minneapolis instead of Portland, which opened in April

As you said, hard to keep track anymore.

John

>From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org, stennyson at webtv.net
>Subject: [PRCo] Re: "sawmills"
>Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 16:52:07 -0400
>
>
>
>A trivia question.  We all know that the Overbrook line in Pittsburgh
>re-opened in early June.
>
>So how many light rail lines have opened in North America since then???
>
>
>Concerning Dallas.  Local funds are provided by a sales tax.  They are
>acceleerating construction to open the northwest - and possibly southeast
>line - earlier because of improved economy.
>
>Salt Lake and Denver might be targets for a 2005 trip, Fred.  The southeast
>line (T-Rex) should open late in year, and Salt Lake has some construction
>in downtown area.  Then plan another trip 4-5 years later because it looks
>like TRAX will build a southwest line.  And by then Denver might have
>recreated the Denver and Intermountain line to Golden.  Right of way 
>already
>owned by RTD.
>
>Oh yes, go by way of St. Louis as the cross country light rail extension 
>has
>been under construction for over a year.
>
>As for the trivia question?  (relates to your comment, Fred, about keeping
>track of abandonments)
>
>Try six light rail extensions opened in North America since Overbrook in
>June. (ok, 5.5)
>
>
>Portland - Interstate
>
>Calgary - Two more stations on South line
>
>Bayonne - couple-maybe three more stations in Sept.
>
>San Jose - Capital line
>
>Sacramento - part of Folsom line
>
>Charlotte-couple miles of south line to be used by heritage cars initially.
>(that's the honorable mention)
>
>John
>
>
> >From: Fred Schneider <fschnei at supernet.com>
> >Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org,   "Edson L. Tennyson, P. E."
> ><stennyson at webtv.net>
> >Subject: [PRCo] Re: "sawmills"
> >Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 13:45:52 -0400
> >
> >Ed Tennyson ... some of my comments to John Swindler and this list
> >deserve your input too.   You can respond to me directly, if you wish,
> >at <fschnei at supernet.com>.   If you want to educate all the others on
> >the mailing list, send your answers to Derrick Brashear
> ><shadow at dementia.org> and ask him to post it to the pittsburgh-railways
> >list.
> >
> >I guess I forgot to mention Dallas.  Up along the expressway to the
> >north is a great Jewish deli run by a Japanese family ... they make
> >fabulous lachs and eggs for breakfast.   And Roy King took us to a great
> >Mexican place for dinner.   (And no I'm not but that doesn't matter....)
> >
> >Oh, you wanted to know about DART?   The north line is finished to Plano
> >(actually to a parking lot on the north edge of Plano, there is no
> >parking near the central Plano stop).  The northeast line reaches
> >Garland.  The construction on the northwest line has begun and it is
> >being used for the first few blocks beyond Union Station when even take
> >place at the stadium.  I had no knowledge at all until a crossed over in
> >on an expressway and saw all this copper that was orange on top!
> >Dallas is one of those places to which I have trouble relating.   I was
> >first there (thanks to the army) in 1959.  I remember going out to visit
> >an old time (now dead) railfan named Walter Donaldson, who lived just
> >north of Southern Methodist University in a new suburban home.   Those
> >suburban homes were what killed the trolleys ... the buses to the new
> >suburbs were running only partly loaded down the same streets with
> >trolleys and the entire trolley system only went out about three or four
> >miles in any direction from downtown.  Like San Jose, Phoenix, Houston,
> >Tucson and many other southwestern cities, Dallas was a small place
> >during the trolley era.  Roy King moved out to the country on the north
> >side in the 1960s and remembered running over an occasional armadillo on
> >his street at night.  That might have been five or six miles out.  Now
> >it is suburbans 15 miles out.  I remember driving over the turnpike
> >(today it's free) from Dallas to Fort Worth, and almost 30 of the 35
> >miles was open  country ...  today it is solid suburbs from Dallas to
> >Forth Worth .... Roy told me last year of driving to a meeting in
> >Arlington at 5:00 PM and taking more than an hour and a half to go 20
> >miles!    Still, Dallas today is miles and miles of suburbs looking for
> >an anchor.    But go there and ride DART.  There is some 65 mph running
> >with light rail cars on the Garland line .... much faster than the
> >commuter trains to Fort Worth.
> >
> >The McKinney Avenue Transit Authority has reached the public trough ...
> >they solved the problem of not having enough volunteers to run the cars
> >by hiring three motorman who work Monday through Friday.  DART passes on
> >subsidy money to them to run their heritage cars ...  a pseudo Birney
> >and a turtle roof Stone and Webster car (both resurrected bodies that
> >did run in Dallas), a Melbourne W2, a  former Washington or Boston PCC
> >third hand from the Tandy subway in Fort Worth, and a hulk of a freight
> >motor from the Northern Texas Traction Co. being rebuilt into a dinner
> >interurban car.   They built an extension last year to connect with one
> >of the north side DART subway stations ... City Point or City View or
> >City Something-or-other.    McKinney no longer collects fares but they
> >willingly accept donations.
> >
> >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >
> >Your question about the mechanics of the NO cars ... the trucks are
> >identical to those on the SEPTA recreated PCCs (pseudo PCC?).   Both
> >have AC motors but I don't know if they are rated identically.   SEPTA
> >retained the three pedal scheme but New Orleans  has a joy stick hand
> >control.  I asked one lady if she also worked out of Carrollton station
> >and her answer was yes.  The clue was simply that the didn't sit down to
> >run the car on Canal.
> >
> >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >
> >Did not take time to observe all the lines in Los Angeles ... was only
> >away from Marie for a a month and a half and by the time we got to L. A.
> >, I was already itching to get home.   Don Duke told me that the average
> >daily ridership on the Blue Lone (Subway to Long Beach) is 40,000; Green
> >Line (the Century Blvd. line that goes no where ) is 30,000;  the first
> >chunk of the Gold Line to Rosemeade Avenue east of Pasadena is 20,000,
> >and the Red Line (the heavy subway) is 120,000.   Don will tell you that
> >these are all captive riders but that may show his prejudices.   I
> >suspect that the Gold Line rider counts could easily triple when the
> >other end is opened into the barios of East Los Angeles.   I'm basing
> >that on Don's comments about captive riders and my own knowledge of the
> >income status in that part of the city.
> >
> >  What I do not know and that which I wish I had knowledge are the rider
> >counts on parallel bus routes before the LRT opened.   Twenty years ago
> >East First Street was probably the heaviest bus route and before that it
> >was LATL's heaviest car line ... and that is why I suspect the Gold Line
> >into that same turf has to succeed.   Wilshire Blvd was the heaviest bus
> >line on the west side but taken together, Wilshire, Hollywood, Sunset
> >and the San Fernando valley lines (One from LATL and three from PE) were
> >probably the heaviest routes on the west side ... and that is the Red
> >Line subway today.   About 1980 SCRTD was running a rush hour heady of
> >close to one minute on Wilshire.  The fact that the subway moves 120,000
> >a day thus comes as no great surprise.
> >
> >Pacific Electric ran a train to Long Beach about every 20 minutes.  The
> >Blue Line headway is about twice that and the trains today are much
> >long.  That comes as a surprise.   But if I lived in Long Beach and had
> >to go into the downtown every day, I sure wouldn't waste time on the
> >Harbor Freeway.   Maybe that explains its success.
> >
> >The Green line is the one that surprises me.  It even was ruled out of
> >LAX ... you need to take a connecting bus.   I just don't understand the
> >30,000 a day but it may be a social factor beyond my comprehension.
> >(Reads what one group of people will do that others will not do.)
> >
> >Their riding may also have something to do with high gasoline prices in
> >Southern California.  When I was there, they were not high  .... $2.25
> >maybe.  (Considering that I do a lot of driving every year in Europe
> >where one pays $4.50 to $5.50 a gallon, I cannot consider $2.25 high.)
> >The California prices would not be a serious deterrent to a German or
> >French driver ... they have about as many cars per capita as we do.
> >
> >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >
> >Did I get to Denver or Salt Lake City?  I've only been away from my wife
> >for 12 weeks this summer.  I don't think Carol would allow you to go for
> >two weeks without having words with you!  I did both of those in 2002
> >during another month-and-a-half odessy.   I'm reminded of all my older
> >friends who complained that the abandonments in the 30s, 40s and 50s
> >were happening so fast they they simply could not get to all of the
> >lines before their demise.  Well, I cannot keep up with all the new
> >ones.  There are a few new ones in France that also need my attention.
> >
> >It is great, as a railfan, to see what is happening.   The economist in
> >me has trouble with some of the operations.  I haven't quite accepted,
> >as some of my friends have, that it is perfectly all right to treat this
> >as a "free" service like fire and police protection and garbage
> >removal.    Maybe  that is because no one has fed me the right numbers.
> >I guess I need to know fully allocated costs and fully allocated
> >benefits ... I need the value of lost taxes to support parking lots, the
> >cash value of cleaner air, the increased taxable value of downtown with
> >rail (Portland and Houston and Toronto may make good examples).
> >
> >I think it is time to end Ed Tennyson to the distribution.....
> >
>

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