[PRCo] Re: TAN: Tampa and Charlotte

[Peter D. Ehrlich]

In a message dated Sunday, January 16, 2005, at 2025 PM, "Fred  
Schneider" <fschnei at supernet.com> wrote:

> Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 20:25:35 -0500
> Subject: [PRCo] Tampa and Charlotte

<[snipped]>

> The all too brief trip to Florida (left Monday home Saturday night) was
> intriguing.
>
> The heritage tram in Tampa reminds one of Birney cars ... reminds in  
> the
> sense that the body looks somewhat like a 13 window Stone and Webster
> car but all the safety appliances are missing ... no deadman, no door
> release in emergency, no folding steps (kids can hitch rides on the
> steps).   Control is are K-35s, trucks came from Melbourne.

Slight correction:  The controllers, trucks, motors and the compressors  
are ex-Milan, Italy.  Gomaco purchased 100 or so derelict Milan Peter  
Witts in the late 1990s for the express purpose of supplying new Birney  
replicas.  Also, the horizontal bars for standees are supported by  
fittings from the same Peter Witts.

> Compressors are rotary instead of reciprocating.  And very unusual to  
> older
> air-brake cars in the U. S., the motorman's brake valves do not  
> directly
> apply air to the brake cylinders and release it, but instead they
> control relay valves under the floor which, in turn, make the brake
> applications.  The feed lines to the relay valve are much smaller,
> therefore take much less time to apply and release brakes than anything
> I've ever operated.   (Shows what kinds of engineering was out there in
> other parts of the world after we gave up trolleys.)

I know that these are not standard Melbourne or Milan brake valves.   
They appear to be a Gomaco design, possibly adapted from the best  
features of both Melbourne (self-lapping) and Milan (straight air).

> But in spite of a
> historically inaccurate design, they look right and make all the right
> sounds.  Interior trim is fine wood ... much more expensive than Stone
> and Webster would have considered when them managed Tampa.  I'm looking
> for a meaningful way to say something without obfuscation or  
> convolution
> and I think there is no way .... Charles Birney's car design, which we
> are attempting to copy, had a fully open body from end to end ... the
> Tampa and Charlotte cars are partly vestibuled behind the motorman  
> which
> should prevent the twisting or racking that the Birneys of the teens  
> and
> twenties experienced
>
> The motormen (and women) are all incredibly friendly, well trained (and
> as their boss explained, part of a "family.").  They are not afraid of
> their machinery ... one of the men on an evening trip ran like the  
> fires
> of hades were behind his butt.   The operators all came from the ranks
> of bus drivers but do not have rights to bump backward.  However, they
> must have commercial drivers licenses and are authorized a a few hours
> of overtime every month to take a bus out and practice ... reasoning
> being that they may need to drive buses if there is a power failure.
> Tells you guys that it is being treated as a transit operation even if
> the majority of the customers are tourists.  And how can they use
> someone else's buses?  They aren't.  The trolleys are being run by the
> Hillsborough Country transit authority, same as the buses.
>
> Plan calls for extension of both ends to form a connecting loop ... the
> extension of the west end into the center of Tampa in two years.  I'm
> not holding my breath.  Current operation is over 2 miles from the  
> south
> fringe of the downtown area, along the docks past the cruise ship
> terminal and parking garages, past the aquarium, and up into Ybor City.
> Cars run every 15 to 20 minutes.  Sidings are not signaled ... meets  
> are
> fixed depending on how many cars are on the line.  (I didn't care to  
> ask
> how they told the operators that we've added another car and the places
> you pass are changed.)
>
> Fleet is 8 or 9 cars ... one single truck Birney recreated from a shed
> and used for charter work (it cannot be used for revenue service  
> because
> it is not ADA compliant), one double-truck open car (they were training
> crews on it last Thursday and Friday), and 6 or 7 of the double-truck
> closed cars.  One more of those long closed cars is one order from
> Gomaco.  Is the open car ADA compliant?  They can load at certain  
> raised
> platforms and they have a portable lift that can be moved by pickup
> truck to an emergency if needed.

The numbers of the Gomaco replica Birneys are 428-435, as the  
highest-numbered car in the old Tampa system was 427.  The open car was  
a loaner to Charlotte from Gomaco, which built the car.  When Charlotte  
ran it, it did handle wheelchair users.  I visited Charlotte in  
November 2004 and the Charlotte Trolley group told me that the car was  
about to leave for Tampa.

Presumably the 9th Birney replica will be 436.

> Highly recommended!   One flaw bothers me ... there seems evidence that
> they are not sure that their main customers are tourists.  There are
> signs posted around the car house saying that photography is forbidden.
> In this case, I got a feeling that it wasn't fear of terrorists but a
> fear that someone else might publish a picture and reap some profit
> which they would like to share.

This is a change from my visit in April 2002.  I identified myself as a  
San Francisco Municipal Railway operator (which I am) and got  
permission to take pictures in the carbarn yard.  I didn't ask to go  
inside to take pictures.

> Tariff ... if I can remember ... $1.00 one way, $2.00 up and back,  
> $3.00
> for a day pass on trolley and bus.  The old farts day ticket is $1.50.
> (Damn that's cheap compared to $6 to $8 in other cities.)
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Charlotte, North Carolina's heritage line consists of about 2.3 miles  
> of
> north south track on a former railroad right-of-way (Southern, what
> else) through the middle of downtown and right through the second floor
> of the convention center.  Charlotte Area Transit System has three
> Gomaco 11 window "Birneys" ... same as the Tampa cars but two windows
> shorter ... deadman control (foot and button on controller handle),
> automatic progression resistance control (I didn't run one but I got  
> the
> feeling it is similar in concept to Westinghouse VA).  Brake valves are
> the same as the Tampa cars.  The barn also houses a former Norfolk or
> Richmond (VE&P) single truck Birney and a car from Japan...

Uh, it's from Piraeus, Greece...

The Birney is ex-Richmond 1520.  It then became Fort Collins 25.   
Although it's currently numbered 407 (I have no idea why), it will be  
restored as VEPCO 1520.  The three Gomaco Birney replicas are numbered  
91, 92 and 93, again picking up where the old tramway system left off  
(Charlotte trolleys quit in March 1938).

> ...and the vehicle
> described in the fourth paragraph.   In addition, there was at one time
> a Philadelphia Suburban Transportation Co. 1949 St. Louis Car - built
> car, owned by Dave Crawford, on the property.  Once the CATS bought the
> property, space was need for offices for supervisors, and the PST car
> was evicted.  Last summer I saw it stored in a warehouse in Charlotte,
> beautifully refinished and repainted in the original PST colors ... I
> think Dave put over $100,000 into it.

I wondered what happened to the PSTC car.  I meant to ask, but the  
woman in charge was busy handling many school groups.   Indeed, the  
beauty of the Charlotte Trolley organization is its extensive  
educational program for local schoolchildren.

> Operation is every 30 minutes, slower than a turtle chasing a worm.
> Bruce could remind me how many crossings ... suffice to inform you that
> every cross street is flagged.  Therefore there are two men on every  
> car
> ... one gets off at each intersection, walks ahead, beckons the  
> motorman
> to come ahead, gets back on, and rides to the next intersection.
> Average operating speed is about 4 mph, or half what we considered
> normal in 1925.   Two cars are on the line ... 3 to 5 minute turn  
> around
> at the north end and more at the south end.  Part of the LRV project
> which follows is the replacement of the flagmen with gates and flashers
> (perhaps it is logical to wait until the Federal government pays for
> them).   Right now it is just a toy that hauls about 10 people a trip.
> (If you are my wage, the super annuated citizens round trip is $1.00.
>
> Siemens is building the new LRVs in Sacramento for the extension to the
> south ... I think the number is in the 12 to 15 car range.  Delivery in
> about two years.  There is a hugh suburban population into northern
> South Carolina; Tryon Street into the city from the south is congested
> to say the least.  In a few years, this might be useful.
>
> For those unfamiliar, this project began as a railfan operation and was
> sold to the city.  There is a fourth car that can be used ... a former
> Charlotte double-truck car that was resurrected from a life as a shed
> and restored to something resembling a former Charlotte car (I can live
> withincorrect  trucks and mechanical parts but the green and red paint
> bears no resemblance to the Southern Public Utilities / Duke Power
> Company orange and cream livery).

This is Charlotte 85, built in the company shops in 1927. #85 was the  
last car in revenue service in Charlotte.

This is my first post to the Pittsburgh-railways group after a few  
years of being a lurker.  Coworker Jim Holland is a frequent  
contributor to groups I own (on Yahoogroups).  To introduce myself, I  
work for Muni as a vintage car, PCC car and occasional Breda LRV  
operator, with nearly 26 years of seniority.  I'm regularly assigned to  
the 2-person cars on the F line, and frequently operate our own  
ex-Milan, Italy trams.

I will be posting more as time permits.

Sincerely,

Peter Ehrlich aka Milantram