[PRCo] Fw: Re: FYI about PAT CAF cars

[Fred Schneider]

Because this is related to Pittsburgh and because some of you saw my original jab, I felt you might want to read Bruce Bente's follow up to me.  

As background, I met Bruce in 1958.  I was a high school senior and he was a junior at Villanova University working on a degree in electrical engineering.  (My wife tells me that we went on to earn a doctorate ... if so, he never mentioned it to me but he tends to be rather modest.)  After graduation the army told him, "We want you."  He spent time at Redstone Arsenal, and then went with Pullman-Standard in the Chicago plant.  When P-S folded, he went with Pullman Technologies, and then he closed that down too.  Fortunately for him, Bombardier bought out the remains and transferred his pension rights to their organization.  He spent his life time in rail car engineering.  I think the last time I saw him at Pullman was working on the New York R46 contract.  He and I have spent a lot of traveling recently, including last year for 4 weeks in the Baltic states and 6 weeks wandering around the U. S.  And this year so far the trip to Tampa, and hopefully to New Orleans and Little Rock in March.   I personally enjoy him because he thinks.  

When it comes to railway engineering, I think he understands what he talks about.  You can also talk to him about leading hikes in the Smoky Mountains ... I think he is out today on a 15 mile walk in the snow.  Yesterday we were bantering back and forth about the PBS piece on "Morning Edition" about bats and wind farms.  

At any rate, read on for his thoughts on the CAF overhaul of the Siemens PAT cars.   He summarizes very well what has happened in the transit car shops. 

I should add something to what he wrote.  While it is common today to contract overhauls, it was not unheard off a hundred years ago.  The Brill order books, for example, are crammed with jobs ranging from pressing gears and wheels on axles to complete collision repairs, mostly for small companies that didn't have the shop capabilities to do it themselves.  

-----Forwarded Message-----
From: Bruce Bente <bbente at cytechusa.com>
Sent: Jan 23, 2005 12:52 PM
To: Fred Schneider <fschnei at supernet.com>
Subject: Re: FYI about PAT CAF cars

Oh shit!  Every so often, you push my button and it's time to respond.

Yes, the entire industry has changed to one where very few operating companies can/will do a major overhaul on their cars and will send them out to be done.  The exceptions are a couple of the original HRV systems.  But definitely the LRV systems are new operators and by design never installed the capacity to do major overhauls on their cars.  This is a sensible decision, because the new operators have mostly bought their cars at one time and it would not be cost efficient to have overhaul capacity that is needed very infrequently.  Nor to have the technical expertise to do so.

The technical state-of-the-art is still changing rapidly, and the suppliers are the only ones who will have the technical expertise to keep up with their own design changes.  Especially propulsion and air-conditioning.

So by going to a rebuilding facility that is handling a continuous stream of orders, they get the most efficient and low-cost method of rebuilding cars.  Examples:  GCRTA sending their 48 Breda cars to TTA for rebuilding; PAT sending their 55 Duewag cars to CAF. (I may be wrong on the quantity, and only 40 rebuilt cars are included in the base contract, with the other 15 to come later when PAT finds the money.)

Another thing to note:  CAF's order included building the 28 new cars and rebuilding the 55 old ones, all in one contract.  I am a bit surprised that the 55 cars go back to Spain for rebuilding, considering the transportation costs.  I'd love to see the cost analysis that they performed.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Fred Schneider 
  To: Bruce Bente 
  Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 10:59 AM
  Subject: Re: FYI about PAT CAF cars


  Or maybe that PAT doesn't know how to overhaul a car? 
  Bruce Bente wrote: 

     This tells us something about labor cost differences between Spain and the US, plus the low cost of ocean transportion.  Not sure which is the most important factor. 
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Fred Schneider
      To: Bruce Bente
      Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 5:18 PM
      Subject: Re: FYI about PAT CAF cars
       CRAZY.  WE CANNOT GIVE CARS A MID LIFE OVERHAUL IN PITTSBURGH.  WE NEED TO PUT THEM ON A SHIP AND SEND THEM ACROSS THE ATLANTIC TO BE REPAIRED.  WOW. 
      Bruce Bente wrote: 

        PAT<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
        <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (Pennsylvania)
        October 23, 2004 


        18 of 28 new light rail vehicles have been delivered. Although a dozen are in daily use, he acknowledged mostly computer glitches have caused delays or forced riders to switch to other cars. "It's part of the shakedown period," Banta said. "All vehicles are under warranty, so there's no additional cost to us. Unfortunately, some riders are being inconvenienced." 


        Banta said the manufacturer has finished rehabilitating the first two of 40 existing LRVs.  

        One is sitting in BaltimoreHarbor awaiting customs clearance before being trucked to Pittsburgh; the other is aboard a freighter sailing from Spain. 


        The Port Authority has a $151.3 million contract with a Spanish firm, CAF, to build 28 new cars, rehabilitate the 40 existing cars, and supply parts and employee training.